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Old 22nd June 2015, 16:45   #451
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Spark plug and its wires that connects to coils. If they are weak or damaged, irregular spark can lead to FE and power loss. Similarly you would want to check the timing adjustment also. If it is set to stock 10-11 deg at idle if i remember correct.

Best is to goto a competent mass.
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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Apart from what Jaggu says, check the exhaust gas in some detail. Keep your hand near the exhaust and let the exhaust gases hit your palm directly. Then check if your palm smells anything like petrol. If it does, then it is a clear indication that raw/unburnt fuel is being expelled, which means energy loss. This may happen because of too rich mixture or a spark plug not firing correctly or not firing at all. Check the condition of the spark plugs, distributor and the condenser in the distributor.. A brown deposit means perfect mix.

Check these step by step and I am sure we will trace if the culprit is the electrical system or the fuel management.
So, over the weekend, I went back to my mechanic and asked him what else could be wrong.
City mileage is around 7-8 and highway is around 12-13.
He has checked the exhaust, timing and the wires.

The car runs really smooth with very less engine noise (after the last work done on it).


He removed the spark plug and it looked normal blackish with carbon deposit.

He believes the next thing to check is for valve leakage.
His estimate is Rs. 3500 for opening up the head and checking.
The total cost could be upto Rs. 7000 if we need to get some machining done.

Now, how much does compression and leak down test cost? And which is the best place in Pune to get that done.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 17:36   #452
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Now, how much does compression and leak down test cost? And which is the best place in Pune to get that done.
Compression check should be free if it is your regular mechanic But i think even an authorized service station would not charge more than 200-500 bucks max. Leak test i am not sure.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 18:08   #453
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Compression check should be free if it is your regular mechanic But i think even an authorized service station would not charge more than 200-500 bucks max. Leak test i am not sure.
Will get this done at MASS. Cost Rs. 200.

I asked for leak testing as well, but supervisor said that for that they need to open the head.

I am not sure if there is a better way to do that, but perhaps I should approach step by step.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 22:03   #454
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Originally Posted by dcs View Post
Greetings!

I drive a 2003 Model Maruti Suzuki Zen LXi (MPFi) which has around 162 thousand kilometers on Odometer.

I have been getting a fuel efficiency in the range of 14- 17 kms to a liter of Petrol ever since ..

Have visited Spiti twice on the car and the performance has been decent, if not flawless....

The reason for my post is- for the past fortnight or so, the fuel efficiency has gone down Drastically.
  • The car, like I said, is serviced properly.
  • There is absolute no Clutch malfunction, the plates were replaced around 10000 kms back.
  • Wheels are balanced and aligned, air pressure as recommended.
  • There is absolute no change in either the traffic condition, the routes taken, the driving style.
  • There is no new or strange or major noise from the engine.
  • Have tried filling fuel from 4-5 different pumps, but with no difference in performance or efficiency.
  • No erratic idling issues. No Starting Issues, No timing issues. No white/ black/ blue smoke from the exhaust.
  • The car is performing correctly, other than this Fuel Efficiency issue.
While I used to clock around 225-250 kms in a fill of 1000 earlier, now it is not delivering more than 150 kms in a fill of 1100, in the similar conditions.

What could be the possible issue and the possible remedy, if there is any. I would definitely be taking it to the Service Center shortly, but I am slightly sceptical if they would be able to sort out the concern because when I called them up today and informed of the same, they said- Bring the Car here and they shall see if the "Carb" is ok or not. Now, I am not a super-techie but I wonder will they be able to understand and rectify the concern, for they dont even know that Post 2000, Zens in Delhi NCR were MPFi & Not Carbbed.

Looking forward for some valuable suggestions.

All cheers
dcs
Is it idling alright? Check if the IAC valve is working properly. Also check for leaks in the fuel lines. There are a couple of good mechanics in south Delhi who can do the job if you are interested.

Also, is it consuming more oil than before?

Slight OT, you mentioned that you took the car to Spiti. How was the experience? I find the Zen to be a little soft spurng for bad roads.

Last edited by fighterace : 22nd June 2015 at 22:06.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 22:40   #455
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

^^ Also look for a stuck brake shoe.
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Old 6th July 2015, 12:45   #456
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Will get this done at MASS. Cost Rs. 200.

I asked for leak testing as well, but supervisor said that for that they need to open the head.

I am not sure if there is a better way to do that, but perhaps I should approach step by step.
So, A.S.S. gauge was out of order. They sent it for repairs, but there was no information when it would be fixed.
After waiting for a week, got the test done at a private garage which charged me Rs.300.

Readings in the dry test were between 11 and 12 (almost 12 as far as I could read) for all except the first cylinder. For the first it was around 8.

I asked the workshop owner how much it would cost to fix this and he said it could be as much as 20-30,000.

Isn't it wiser to just get an Esteem or some other engine in that price range?
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Old 8th July 2015, 11:43   #457
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

I have a MPFI ZEN.
The front engine comparment/apron had too much rust, got it completely tinkered and painted.
After the repair,filled fuel (half tank) car ran absolutely fine without any issues.
On highway, I filled the tank to absolute brim at a reputed COCO bunk, after driving for 5 kms, My car started to jerk, total power loss, but was back to normal instantly, car never stalled as I was doing good speed(100kmph) same continued for around 15+kms, then the car behaved as if nothing happened. It was back to normal.
Again, after 200kms I filled the tank(SHELL bunk) to brim once again just to check if the same issue occurs, YES the same issue popped up, now the drive was in City with heavy traffic. Car used to jerk a lot and stalled whenever I got slow, cranking was not at all a problem.
The same continued for almost 10kms, after this everything is back to normal.
What could be the issue ? As the tank is filled to the brim, Is it because there is no space for the fuel vapour being formed in the tank, fuel lines to escape ?
Else what coulbe be the other reason ? Any pipe/plug not being fitted properly ?

The car is absolutely fine now, as I haven't filled the tank to the brim yet

Last edited by sushrutha : 8th July 2015 at 11:45.
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Old 8th July 2015, 13:10   #458
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
What could be the issue ? As the tank is filled to the brim, Is it because there is no space for the fuel vapour being formed in the tank, fuel lines to escape ?

The car is absolutely fine now, as I haven't filled the tank to the brim yet
I think your guess is correct. I always make it a point to stop filling at the auto shut-off point. Filling to the brim is a usual practice by operators at many filling stations which I think is unsafe and unnecessary.

Please fill for the next 2 - 3 times only till the auto shut-off and see if the problem is gone for good. Good luck.
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Old 10th July 2015, 14:08   #459
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
I have a MPFI ZEN.
The front engine comparment/apron had too much rust, got it completely tinkered and painted.
After the repair,filled fuel (half tank) car ran absolutely fine without any issues.
What could be the issue ? As the tank is filled to the brim, Is it because there is no space for the fuel vapour being formed in the tank, fuel lines to escape ?
Else what coulbe be the other reason ? Any pipe/plug not being fitted properly ?

The car is absolutely fine now, as I haven't filled the tank to the brim yet
Not sure if Zen has a metallic fuel tank. I've heard of instances in other cars where there were rust issues at the top of the petrol tank if the tank was never filled full for a long time. Later, when we fill full tank, this rust particles gets mixed with petrol and reaches the injector causing issues. Do you usually fill full tank?

Last edited by zenren : 10th July 2015 at 14:09.
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Old 10th July 2015, 14:51   #460
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
So, A.S.S. gauge was out of order. They sent it for repairs, but there was no information when it would be fixed.
After waiting for a week, got the test done at a private garage which charged me Rs.300.

Readings in the dry test were between 11 and 12 (almost 12 as far as I could read) for all except the first cylinder. For the first it was around 8.

I asked the workshop owner how much it would cost to fix this and he said it could be as much as 20-30,000.

Isn't it wiser to just get an Esteem or some other engine in that price range?
What is this 8-11-12??
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Old 12th July 2015, 21:38   #461
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
What is this 8-11-12??
That is the reading on the gauge. The normal compression is between 10 and 13.


Now, I need to look for someone who can give a reasonable price to fix the engine. Current estimates from 2 places are around 20K.
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Old 13th July 2015, 09:53   #462
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
That is the reading on the gauge. The normal compression is between 10 and 13.


Now, I need to look for someone who can give a reasonable price to fix the engine. Current estimates from 2 places are around 20K.
Please dont get me wrong, these numerical 8-10-11...13!! Are of no use unless you let us know the metric associated with it. Compression is generally measured in "PSI"! Is there some way you could let us know the values in psi?

Going by what you've posted, it does seem that you're loosing compression. There could be various factors causing that! Very difficult to resolve remotely!

20k for a engine rebuild sounds decent! Hope the guys know what they are going to do!

Cheers

Last edited by ssjr0498 : 13th July 2015 at 09:57.
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Old 14th July 2015, 11:43   #463
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Please dont get me wrong, these numerical 8-10-11...13!! Are of no use unless you let us know the metric associated with it. Compression is generally measured in "PSI"! Is there some way you could let us know the values in psi?

Going by what you've posted, it does seem that you're loosing compression. There could be various factors causing that! Very difficult to resolve remotely!

20k for a engine rebuild sounds decent! Hope the guys know what they are going to do!

Cheers
The unit of measurement is bar. See this (Compression ratio of Zen carb.) related thread.

I have had more discussion and the plan is to just remove the head and get it 'fixed'. Engine lapping will be done.

The piston ring, gaskets, etc will be replaced. There is some full kit which comes.
The block will not be removed.

Front Engine mount is also weak. So, that will be replaced with a new one.
Estimated cost is around Rs. 9500.
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Old 14th July 2015, 12:25   #464
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
The unit of measurement is bar. See this (Compression ratio of Zen carb.) related thread.

I have had more discussion and the plan is to just remove the head and get it 'fixed'. Engine lapping will be done.

The piston ring, gaskets, etc will be replaced. There is some full kit which comes.
The block will not be removed.

Front Engine mount is also weak. So, that will be replaced with a new one.
Estimated cost is around Rs. 9500.
Thankyou for the response, however, please undertstand that "Compression Ratio" and "Cylinder compression" are 2 different things!! You could do a research on that for more understanding.

By the way you described the current state of your car, lapping should be the least of your worries. Please understand, changing the piston rings on a superbly worn out block will not yeild any results.

As a rule of thumb, if you're replacing your rings, if not re-sleeving or going over bore,it is recommended to atleast re-hone the block "IF" it is within the useable specifications provided by the manufacturer. As you have mentioned the block will not be removed, the shop is trying to milk you!

You get gasket kits for almost all the cars in the market, nothing special about them! The front engine mount of a Zen costs 9500? Are you serious?

I would suggest, please do a good research before you get this work done, specially at the place where you planning to go. This guy sure sounds like a scamster!

Cheers!
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Old 14th July 2015, 12:28   #465
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Thankyou for the response, however, please undertstand that "Compression Ratio" and "Cylinder compression" are 2 different things!! You could do a research on that for more understanding.

By the way you described the current state of your car, lapping should be the least of your worries. Please understand, changing the piston rings on a superbly worn out block will not yeild any results.

As a rule of thumb, if you're replacing your rings, if not re-sleeving or going over bore,it is recommended to atleast re-hone the block "IF" it is within the useable specifications provided by the manufacturer. As you have mentioned the block will not be removed, the shop is trying to milk you!

You get gasket kits for almost all the cars in the market, nothing special about them! The front engine mount of a Zen costs 9500? Are you serious?

I would suggest, please do a good research before you get this work done, specially at the place where you planning to go. This guy sure sounds like a scamster!

Cheers!
The cost for the total job is estimated to be Rs. 9500. Out of that, mount costs Rs. 450 approximately.
When is a 'block' job necessary? Are there any symptoms?
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