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Old 29th October 2009, 13:00   #1
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Default Thud while releasing clutch - After replacement - WagonR

Hi Guys,

Seeking your help on this not-so-strange issue and your inputs as well.

After I started experiencing tighter operation of the clutch as well as "step" while depressing it, I thought even if there was very less judder and absolutely no slippage, I must just replace it since the car had done 73K Kms on stock clutch and I had anyway given it for service to replace all the shocks.

But now, after running the car for about 5000 Kms after clucth replacement, here is what I have been experiencing.

-While moving from Standstill in 1st gear, When I release the clutch, at one specific point there is a "thud", literally making you feel that the engine has just been knocked for a second.

-This is the same case even when I move from 1st and put into 2nd at speeds of 15kmph and release the clucth even while the car is in movement, A "thud" again. From 3rd to 2nd while slowing down as well.

-This doesnt seem to happen at speeds beyond 40 kmph since the car is good motion now.

-However, at times, I have also experienced that when I see the signal turn red & start shifting down from 4>3>2> and then Neutral, While I halt completely & then release the clutch (when in Neutral) and this time too, I can feel that "thud".

(all these "thuds" are only when the engine is running and not when its turned off, so this is not to do with the cable or this is also not the case of a "step" falling in between the depress and release operation)

I am in Pune now for a few more months and when I had drove to Bangalore 3 weeks before, I had taken the car to MASS (Mandovi, Yeshwantpur where it was replaced a few months before). I explained the issue and the mechanic asked for a test drive. He felt all was fine and tried explaining that the "thud" will be experienced when clutch is released abruptly!! (he was releasing the clutch ensuring that the accelerator was pressed more than usual like how the learners do, obviously giving no chance for that "thud").I had to explain him that I am the only one driving the car all through 80k Kms and I am sure the stock clutch lasted only since I knew its proper operation and that there has been no change in my driving style after replacing the clutch either.

I then asked him to help me with another Wagon-R and when I test drove, I proved to him that all was not fine with MY Wagon-R's new clutch .

Later, He adjusted the play and still the problem persisted. After opening the bonet and trying to get that "thud" he "felt" that one of the engine mounting had worn out and hence that "shake" was causing the thud. I reluctantly agreed and he replaced the mounting. May be then, my momentary perception made me feel that the problem was fixed and later to that I drove back to Pune and since it was more of a Highway drive, I couldn't experience that much.

But, I still feel something drastically wrong with the replacement clutch and that "thud" is definitely not normal from my experience and I also don't release it harshly. Bumper to Bumper traffic is a good testing!!

I somehow feel that the release mechanism of the clutch is not smoother and somewhere it is getting stuck and hence that "thud".

I definitely don't want to spend much to resolve this issue and obviously checking this will involve dismantling the clutch assembly and I am sure I will be charged an almost 2k for the labor. I Still see this as a failure with the fitment of clutch or a malfunction in the new clutch and I want the MASS to realise this.

Please share your thoughts on the possible causes and how I go about it. I am also ready to drive back to Bangalore some time (Which I usually do) and take to the same folks again but I want to know what else can be checked?

Last edited by paragsachania : 29th October 2009 at 13:03.
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Old 29th October 2009, 22:52   #2
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It feels like the pressure plate is the problem area by your description.
Also in clutch job it is better to replace pressure plate , clutch plate and clutch bearing as a set .
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Old 30th October 2009, 10:41   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
It feels like the pressure plate is the problem area by your description.
Also in clutch job it is better to replace pressure plate , clutch plate and clutch bearing as a set .
Thanks for responding but I am very sure that the pressure plate, clucth plate as well the bearings were all replaced during the job and hence I am worried at the quality of execution of this very job itself.
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Old 30th October 2009, 10:45   #4
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He was right, it is indeed one of the engine or gearbox mount which was making the sound, atleast from the description you have put, i think so.
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Old 30th October 2009, 10:52   #5
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I had a similar issue, but not on cars, but my kinetic after changing the clutch assembly.
Issue was there was greece in between, where it was not supposed to be. We opened the entire assembly, wiped it dry and fitted back. Presto.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:37   #6
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
He was right, it is indeed one of the engine or gearbox mount which was making the sound, atleast from the description you have put, i think so.
Thanks Jaggu and Like I mentioned may be it was fixed when the mounting was replaced but now (just after 3k kms of replacing the mounting), I still feel that thud these days.

Instance:

Wait in neutral for light to turn green, Engage in 1st gear, rev the engine a bit and release the clutch as usually as one does, the car moves 1-2 ft and as your pedal (clutch) comes to an almost top position, there is a "Thud".

I can understand that this can probably be the case of the mounting but not again after replacing it. While there was a visible engine movement when Physically shaking it with the worn out mounting, after replacement, the shake drastically reduced and I also feel it smoother at higher RPMs now. But the jerk/thud is definitely not normal at all. Imagine this happening even when your car in in movrment and you are shifting to 2nd/3rd. I drive so cautiuosly these days that I release the clutch extremely slowly than usual to ensure that this is not felt. There is no way that I can zoom in 1st gear like before without this thud.

Can you think of this problem as something to do with the Clutch release mechanism itself. May be, the Driver and the drive shaft arent coupling/engaging smoothly? Would it be good to just open the clutch and get it checked once?
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:38   #7
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I am experiencing this same "thud" in my M1000 even after cluth and pressure plate change. Its engine mount or maybe something else. When I release clutch very slowly I mean here really very slowly then this thud does not happen.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:43   #8
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^ I am 100% sure this is the issue with pressure plate/Clutch bearing and i am pretty sure i am right. The mountings will make noise when engine is idling once moving on plain road mountings rarely make any noise until you have a bad stretch of road or you are accelerating / deaccelerating rapidly . Also you must be feeling the clutch is not smooth .It is like heavy feel on the clutch pedal .

I do not know about wagonR but in M800 there is this thing (on Gearbox)on which clutch cable is mounted .Locally mechanics call it the jhanda/flag.Over a period of time it wears out and needs to be replaced .It makes a big difference in the feel of the clutch .I had it replaced at 1,00,000 kms on our M800 .

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 30th October 2009 at 12:47.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Can you think of this problem as something to do with the Clutch release mechanism itself. May be, the Driver and the drive shaft arent coupling/engaging smoothly? Would it be good to just open the clutch and get it checked once?
One reason can be, one of the other mounts have become weak. Or else yes clutch release is not right, but this has to be diagnosed by a competent mech/person by driving the car. If so clutch release bearing/pressure plate can be the culprit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hashim View Post
I am experiencing this same "thud" in my M1000 even after cluth and pressure plate change. Its engine mount or maybe something else. When I release clutch very slowly I mean here really very slowly then this thud does not happen.
When the engine is cold, open the bonnet and move/shake the engine with your hand. If the whole assembly is moving around easily its a sure sign of weak/broken mounts. You might even be able to replicate the thud sound while doing this.

Second is check if your exhaust pipe is routed ok and the rubber bushes holding them are in good condition.

Last edited by Jaggu : 30th October 2009 at 12:53.
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
^ I am 100% sure this is the issue with pressure plate/Clutch bearing and i am pretty sure i am right. .
In which case, I would rather visit a MASS and get the clutch dismantled and have it checked. On the mountings, I again agree since in motion the worn out mounting will possibly cause a little vibration at higher RPMs and jerks at lower speeds but this kind of a feel which hints you that the engagement is not at all right.
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Old 21st December 2009, 11:48   #11
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Default Updated - Problem solved now

Guys,

Posting this almost after a fortnight after my problem was resolved but it is worth a mention of how was it resolved.

7 December I take my car to MASS (Mandovi Motors, Yeshwantpur) again with the same complaint that all was not well even after the mounting was replaced.

MASS Service Advisors take test drive and still arent really convinced that the problem persists and call it normal.

I escalate this and the main Technician takes a test drive and somehow feels that there is a problem and advises to dismantle the clutch. Thank god he did!

Clutch removed, opened to find absolutely nothing abnormal. It had run for 16000 Kms after replacement and there were no signs of abnormal wear and tear on the clutch plate.

Checked with the cable, pedal & bearings and all was well here as well. Lubrication was upto the mark too.

Now comes the surprise. The advisor goes inside the room where a Maruti South India Regional representative has come and shows the clutch and explains the problem. Comes out after 10 minutes of chat to tell me that they cannot give warranty for a MGP.

Well, When Did I every ask for a warranty? I just want my darn problem to get resolved after finding the fault. I make no hue and cry about not paying any penny and hence they feel relieved that I wont demand compensation (Well, not really now or from Mandovi for that matter!).

The Analysis:

MGP clutch comes from 2 manufacturers - Valeo and Ceekay. Both have different design in terms of their diameters and the extent to which the cover assembly covers the plate.

The one which was replaced and was giving prouble was Valeo.
To give it a try, they agree to try the latter (Ceekay) and check if the problem persisted. So this man comes out from the parts department holding a brand new clutch without the cover assembly and tells that they only have the pressure plate and not the cover assembly in stock and will have to source it out from elsewhere. They tell me that most of the places they enquired, it was out of stock.

I don't argue though I am surprised at this trick and hence agree to get the MGP myself after calling ESSAR and confirmin the part. In fact ESSAR tells me they have "Enough" stock of these clutches since the same is used in the Alto as well. I pay 1800 and get the part and back to Mandovi.

Clutch fixed now in 45 minutes, car started, service advisor moves the car for just 10 meters and comes out and says "Banni saar" with a smile and I needn't guess anything but realise that the issue was resolved.

What a difference I must admit. Thud vanished, Initial acceleration too was faster now and moving from 40kmph to 60 and beyond was actually effortless and made me realise how much I had compromised all these days. In fact, the engine roughness too had vanished with this new clutch.

I drove to Pune on that weekend (13th) and was more than happy about the way the car behaved and performed all through that 850Kms of journey.

Now what?

Since it wasn't MASS's fault as they replaced the stock clutch with a brand new OEM MGP, I cannot really blame them for this mess and their explaination that mostly WagonRs come with both Valeo and Ceekay these days.

The replaced part wasnt faulty from any angle (as from their analysis and my basic knowledge which I had from its looks) but it never worked for my car. Period!

They have retained the clucth and I have signed the payment receipt along with a statement that "Faultly clutch retained by Mandovi to carry out further analysis" and they have agreed to get back to me in a fortnight.

I was also given a 50% discount on the labor (cost me 650) this time since the issue was peculiar and I had visited them earlier and also procured the clucth myself from ESSAR this time paying from my pocket.

Am I Happy - Well, Yes for the car but not for the way things went and the time and additional money I spent.

I intend to write to Maruti on this and try to get an answer regarding the problem but would really appreciate if I know what else is the way to knock on the doors of Maruti so that they listen to my problem?

Part was MGP, place was MASS and Car was a Maruti but the make of the part was a specific brand that caused all this.
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