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Old 27th June 2014, 10:28   #46
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Default Re: Teflon Coating - Harmful on new cars?

Update : All it took was 1 instance and now he's researched extensively about teflon & servicing :

So here are some pointers regarding teflon coating.. And the progress of my dispute aswell.

1. Teflon is a polymer-chain (a chemical) product that was created, trademarked and copyrighted by a company named Dupont in somewhere about 1940s. Dupont has various cases slapped against various companies using the name teflon for their product.

2. This was the chemical that was used in many non-stick pans due to their excellent hydrophobic property(water repelling) and its use in car paint protection has been highly debated as to actually bond with the paint(or other surface) and provide protection requires temperatures of about 500C-600C which cannot be achieved by simply applying or rubbing(polishing or whatever) it over a painted car. And even if it does, that high temperature would eat through your clear coat layer and the paint! (The benefits is not the focus).

3. As far as my knowledge confirms, Dupont has doscontinued the Teflon production in India some 3-5 years back. This means even if some legitimate teflon coating products existed, now it does not(unless some company has abundant of teflon stock left which lasted for so many years -_-). This also applies to nonstick pans that claim to be teflon coated! They might be nonstick to an excellent degree(due to other polymer coating) but stating that it is teflon coated now is completely false.

4. There are various paint protection coating(polymer chemical coating) done which, when applied, seal the underlying paint(think of it as a varnish). Teflon coating is one such paint protection polymer(teflon's car paint protection being significantly better than other polymer coating is debatable)

5. Paint protection is different from paint restoration polish. Paint restoration polishing means the polishing liquid is buffed upon the paint which removes extremely thin layer of the clear coat which causes the paint(actually the clear coat) to look as new(restore. Think of it as using an eraser to rub off the pencil writings off the paper) which is often followed by waxing to give a glossy new look- this should strictly not be done more than twice a year! And is a strict no-no for a new car! Only after some years when the car starts to look dull or yellowish is when this should be done.(go for paint protection polymer coating or waxing or slight buffing using a rubbing compound instead)

6. Any dealer/workshop or the likes that claim to offer Teflon coating is actually performing a paint protection or polishing work. Though the paint protection job done achieves similar effect as that of teflon, they are much cheaper like literally about or ⅓ the price.(might be even cheaper). This practice (either due to the workshop people being genuinely misinformed or with the intent of looting) is rampant!

7. Any polymer coating does not last more than 3-6 months and requires a recoat (often such services inckude an additional 1 or 2 coats after some months)

8. Another kind of enhancing the look is waxing in which again the wax(paste or liquid) is buffed onto the paint which gives a superior glossy look and provides water beading as well(repels water). This is the least abrasive to the paint and the clearcoat and is also the cheapest among all and the effect lasts about 1-2 months.

Now some pointers when you give your car for a service or some work. :

1. Always insist on being present for whatever work (especially when you have paid too much or if you are doubtful over something) being done on your car. (sometimes the customers are genuinely not allowed inside a workshop but don't take no for an answer) Be it a simple inspection, washing or some repairs. I mention washing because many service centres apply diesel to loosen up the grime (was done for my i20 too) and when not washed off properly, leaves a slight tint on the paint which then requires some real good sweat to remove.

2. Always insist on seeing the material used for paint jobs/body jobs or any such thing and cross check to confirm that you are getting what you paid for. The service centre people would give you a billion reasons saying that they cannot disclose the materials. I call bluff to that! Simply strongly say that you would not sign the order completion sheet or equivalent and request to talk to the manager. A customer has the right to know the materials used. He isn't asking for the patented formula, but simply the name of the product.
Had I not done that, I would have never come to know that the "teflon coating" was actually a polishing job! I firmly said "I would not allow the work to be completed and will not sign the sheet" and then they agreed to show me the materials which revealed the fraud.

3. Always have a job card made for your car service or repair and do not sign it unless the work has been completed and you are satisfied by it. A job card goes has a unique serial number which goes directly to the online system and can be tracked.

Also, strongly instruct them not to close a job card until you tell them so. Often, and in my case aswell, the job card is closed as it enters the workshop for the work stated in the job card to save on the time that the customer has to wait during the end processing(this was the reason given to me when i asked to stop the processing the job card and came to know it was already closed). A job card should only be closed once the work has been completed and the relevant documents should only be signed by you only if you are satisfied.

If you do not do so and the matter is escalated, the customer is part liable as the service centre would be right in saying that the customer was satisfied and hence he/she signed it.

4. You most probably have a smartphone if you are in this group. So take pictures of anything and everything related to the service provided to the car that you are skeptical about as a proof to support your case. After i was shown the materials used for teflon, i realised that it was polishing liquid and took pictures of it. They said it's not allowed to which i calmly replied "fraud karna b allowed nai hai"

And now finally coming to the status of my dispute :

I met my sales executive at the Modi Hyundai, Thane dealership and later met the manager. I informed her about the false practices, explained what teflon actually is and she agreed that they were misinformed which was a fault on their part and almost every dealership have the same scenario. Finally I was asked to email her the photographic proof (that I had taken), along with the complain so that the necessary changes (reprinting teflon coating as paint protection/polishing I'm their bills and brochure copies across all dealerships though I highly doubt that claim) can be made by the higher authority(director).

They also agreed to refund about 3000-3500rs by cheque in one week's time(after I send the email) from the 7500 I had paid for the engine coating and underbody anti rust coating + teflon. So that means I have got the engine coating and underbody anti rust coating done for about 4500 which seems fair to me.

Apart from that, I would also be registering a complaint at Hyundai about the false practice(due to them being misinformed or whatever) and would strongly urge every car owner here to find out about such false practices at their respective dealership/service centre and if its the same scenario, lodge a formal complaint to the higher level and not at the dealership level. A simple raising of a question can benefit you a lot and put an end to many such problems.

I should mention that the intent of this post was in no way to create a negative image of Modi Hyundai dealership and the service centre but to alert and inform the people. The only issue was that they were seriously misinformed and later even tried to defend on that saying "sir yahi kiya jata hai teflon k liye"

A very long read i know, but i thought i should share this so someone else should not be duped of his hard earned money.
Dealerships/Car "Brands" don't realise how sad it is that they're being looked upon as thieves after such instances, yet they still don't pull up their socks.

Even here the dealer only eventually 'agreed' for a refund ( that too after 1 week if the customer sends an E-mail! :/ ). If it was any other business, people would've atleast threatened a police complaint demanding an immediate refund by now!

Mods : Apologies if there are any grammatical errors, I've weeded out as many as I could.
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Old 30th October 2014, 17:58   #47
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Default Re: Teflon Coating - Harmful on new cars?

Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I know we have multiple threads on Teflon coating, But[b] I'm making this thread specifically as a warning to new car owners, and to question ..........I'm going to recommend that people avoid it, even if its free.
What do you guys think.
Originally Posted by sterlingjames View Post
i am shocked that the above procedure is passed off as Teflon coating by some illiterate operators!
firstly, to give a clarifiaction TEFLON is a .............alternatively, get a box of Formula1 carnuba wax or Eagle1 Nano wax(is better) and do it yourself at home once every 3 months, it will also give you a chance to bond regulary with your car as well!
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Teflon really isn't suited for our harsh weather either. The coating on the roof of my Esteem entirely cracked up (thanks to being..........Nope, that's not teflon.
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I know, but that's what sells here as Teflon coating.

Some other dealers do offer 3M car detailing, but most simply do a generic 'Teflon coating' job, and most people, looking at the shine............unsuspecting people fall victim in smaller cities like mine.
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
SCAM alert!

However, on the bright side, the receiving car owner has probably benefited anyways. His car is better off without Teflon!

I came across this very interesting thread and followed it with interest as Teflon (or rather PTFE, polytetraflouroethylene, to give its proper name) is something which I - as all marine engineers in fact - have been working with for a long time. It has marvellous antifriction properties and as such is very popular as lubricant - Molykote greases and synthetic oils in trunk piston engines are some of the applications.

However its use as a protective car paint coating is debatable as I could find no reference to this application in any of the popular searches.
Its cosmetic application - high gloss, etc - is not in doubt but for providing protective coating - that's another old wives tale !

PS - GTO, I hope I have not made another gaffe regarding posting etiquette!
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