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Old 13th November 2009, 06:45   #31
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@ ravveendrra. I think motophsyco is being civil & polite. I believe it is certain others who think maruti turbos are infallible who need to rein in their tone.
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Old 13th November 2009, 07:30   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
My only doubt: How did oil get into the intercooler?

If oil is getting into the intercooler / turbo / air intake system in quantities large enough to block the intercooler - there is obviously some defect.
The shaft connceting the impeller and the compressor blades rotate generally at about 100,000 rpm generally and gets lubricated by the engine oil. If the clearance between the shaft and the casing increases due to wear and tear, oil will get leaking into the compression chamber and get mixed with the hot air and flow to the IC. At IC when the air cools down, the oil condenses and remains in the IC.

This is also another reason why manufacturers advise to let the turbo idle for 30 sec - 1 minute after starting so that the lubrication ois proper at the turbo shaft before it reaches its normal operating speed. Similarly one is required to wait a while before switching off the engine so that the turbo has cooled down and operating at low speed and loss of lubrication on switching off the engine will not harm it.
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Old 13th November 2009, 07:54   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The shaft connceting the impeller and the compressor blades rotate generally at about 100,000 rpm generally and gets lubricated by the engine oil. If the clearance between the shaft and the casing increases due to wear and tear, oil will get leaking into the compression chamber and get mixed with the hot air and flow to the IC. At IC when the air cools down, the oil condenses and remains in the IC.

This is also another reason why manufacturers advise to let the turbo idle for 30 sec - 1 minute after starting so that the lubrication ois proper at the turbo shaft before it reaches its normal operating speed. Similarly one is required to wait a while before switching off the engine so that the turbo has cooled down and operating at low speed and loss of lubrication on switching off the engine will not harm it.
So it would be a material defect either in the casing or 'oil seal'. could this be caused by use of improper or sub-standard material? Perhaps due to cost-cutting?

I remember hearing / reading somewhere that Maruti forced a price cut on all their suppliers about a year ago.

Cheers,
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Old 13th November 2009, 08:31   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
So it would be a material defect either in the casing or 'oil seal'. could this be caused by use of improper or sub-standard material? Perhaps due to cost-cutting?

I remember hearing / reading somewhere that Maruti forced a price cut on all their suppliers about a year ago.

Cheers,
Turbo's are fairly standard products that require high amount of precision engineering and I don't think that even if MUL wants to reduce prices of the Turbo they can dictate so to the vendor. Plus in India there are only two vendors who produce turbo's - Holcet ( Part of Cummins Inc) and Turbo Energy Limited. So I don't think it has anything to do with the sub-standard material.

Any component has a rated life, in this case the shaft in question may be rated to last for x hours at say 100k RPM. So if you operate it at below 100krpm it will last longer and over 100k then it will last lesser. Now as MotoPhysco says, MUL has agressively mapped the engine, requiring the turbo to run more time in the boost range than comparable 1.3MJD in TATA/FIAT, the life of turbo will be reduced.
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Old 13th November 2009, 12:21   #35
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Turbo blow-by is the cause for the oil leaking into the IC and it happens on all turbo diesels. Most of the manufacturers are looking at incorporating a "catch can" to catch this excess oil. Our cars don't have any such thing. Eventually what happens is, the oil accumulates over a period of time, softens the IC boots and eventually starts leaking to the ground. This is when most people notice the oil accumulation. We can just be one step ahead and keep a check on this regularly . Atleast once every 30k kms.

Ravveendrra, I started stating out some facts without mocking at anyone until someone went ahead and started making needless comparo's to bye-pass surgery, writing & tech skills, and using a language filled with sarcasm.

I know we are all here to discuss all things auto-related. We shouldn't let our inability to accept that every mechanical part is prone to issues, be it a high precision TC or something as small as a timing belt. Making baseless comments, without digging deep into the real issue is totally uncalled for. I would suggest each and everyone who has posted on this thread to once dwell on the Swift Turbo issues thread.
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Old 13th November 2009, 12:42   #36
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Btw, I found out that my indica/indigos use the same KP35 turbo. most of them run up very high mileages, no issues so far
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Old 13th November 2009, 15:04   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Turbo's are fairly standard products that require high amount of precision engineering and I don't think that even if MUL wants to reduce prices of the Turbo they can dictate so to the vendor. Plus in India there are only two vendors who produce turbo's - Holcet ( Part of Cummins Inc) and Turbo Energy Limited. So I don't think it has anything to do with the sub-standard material.

Any component has a rated life, in this case the shaft in question may be rated to last for x hours at say 100k RPM. So if you operate it at below 100krpm it will last longer and over 100k then it will last lesser. Now as MotoPhysco says, MUL has agressively mapped the engine, requiring the turbo to run more time in the boost range than comparable 1.3MJD in TATA/FIAT, the life of turbo will be reduced.
Reduced yes, but by what percent. In my book a reduction by something like 90% can be termed a failure. Oil cannot leak in the turbo unless something is wrong.

Most posters here agree that turbos are meant to last the life of the enginne. So having oil leak at 30000 km is not acceptable.

Cheers,
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Old 13th November 2009, 15:35   #38
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Moderator's Note:

Guys, lets not get personal. Please stick to the topic of the thread. Thanks
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Old 13th November 2009, 15:58   #39
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I don't think any turbo charger needs the service, even in my Indica DLG turbo doing more than 34K KM there is no need for that and not mentioned in service manuals either.
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Old 14th November 2009, 11:42   #40
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I have heard about Turbochargers being serviced by Bosch, but never really tried it.I just changed turbo on my 05 Accent viva Crdi as clearence between casing and shaft was increased drastically, getting oil getting leaked into chamber.The new one was costing somewhere around 70k's, so had to "Jugaado" one from scrap dealer.
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Old 14th November 2009, 12:49   #41
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a routine check up and cleaning of the IC isn't gonna harm anything
MUL could have recieved some feedback regarding this and sent out an advisory to the MASS to do the needfull
so even if not mentioned in the manual, doesn't matter


ds
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Old 14th November 2009, 13:39   #42
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I have a 2006 Accent CRDi which has clocked around 85k and during my last visit for vibration & rattling problems to the service centre... those guys suggested me n no. of checks and repairs one of which included this "TURBO CLEANING" thing... Knowing that its a second hand car... These guys refused to take the car on the ramp and inspect it before me... They always said me we will have to check by opening things and observe engine closely and then we will revert to you on whats wrong and what needs to be replaced.

But my car dont have any issues at all... no Black Smoke and Oil Leaks as mentioned earlier... The car has an amazing pickup its smooth and the only rattling problem it had was solved when I changed the engine mounts...

When I enquired in detail about what is this turbo cleaning all about & how would it help the guys didnt have any answer... Gave me a shaggling answer that the mileage and pickup would be increased and would help reduce the vibrations... (Which again they were not able to substantiate when I said the car is giving me a whooping mileage of 15 City and 19-20 HW..)

Then I was said it might have caused also lots of damage to the engine, the heads, ring and got knows what all stuff needs to be replaced... without any problems in the car... they said it could cost me as high as Rs 1.5 L. I had gone crazy on these guys who are giving me a estimate of such a huge amount on perfectly running car with absolutely no problems whatsoever...

When I said I dont want to do anything they said getting engine mounts replaced would help to solve the vibration and rattling problems with an estimate of around 11k. I left the place..

Got the car inspected by my local mechanic who specialises in these CRDi engines and does complete overhauls of the engines and repairs cars even whoe timing belts have broken with bent heads... He inspected the complete car infront of me opening the cover which engine (just a plastic cover which takes hardly any time to open) and other cover under which the timimg belt is there as well the turbo everything... Inspected the car from below and sid me that the only problem with the car is the enigine mount. I got it replaced from him with a cost of around 5k with standard company parts (not Hyundai) but with the same weight and quality (might be a diff of 90-100). Now my all problems solved the car is running fine smooth with no vibrations and starting rattle at all.

With this everyone can conclude what the authorised service centres can do... Till now I had never gone to other places than the authorised service centres... Nethier for my Accent nor for my Swift (New Car)...

Another problems with service centre I came to know is always they say for accent crdi they require 5L Oil and charge for the same. But to my surprise this mechanic said only 3.5 to 4 L Oil is sufficient and after draining all the oil and the filter. He filled the oil before me and showed me the level is full on the oil strip. Same is the case with my Swift (Petrol), Maruti guys always charge for 5L whereas I came to know that Petrol cars needs only 3.5L but have never seen it for swift. Any experience on this anybody.

Regards
Abhishek
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Old 17th November 2009, 21:10   #43
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OT :- after how many kms does the engine oil get black after replacement. in my case yesterday it got black just after running for 3 kms[/quote]

hi BHP,
If oil and filter both were changed after patiently draining the old oil , no way oil should get black in 3 km.
You are being taken for a ride mate.
either they didnt change the olf filter / drained the oil completely or didnt change the oil at all.
Get ur oil checked at an independent agency pronto.
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Old 17th November 2009, 21:13   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agspins View Post
I have heard about Turbochargers being serviced by Bosch, but never really tried it.I just changed turbo on my 05 Accent viva Crdi as clearence between casing and shaft was increased drastically, getting oil getting leaked into chamber.The new one was costing somewhere around 70k's, so had to "Jugaado" one from scrap dealer.
70 K ACCENT CRDI TURBO ?
hOW MUCH DOES THE FIP FOR THE DETROIT DIESEL ENGINE COST THEN ? U sure they didnt make a mistake in the quote ?
In any case , the kkk turbo doing duty in indica / indigo can be repaired for about 4500 INR.
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Old 17th November 2009, 21:44   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp View Post

OT :- after how many kms does the engine oil get black after replacement. in my case yesterday it got black just after running for 3 kms
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGHNOON View Post

OT :- after how many kms does the engine oil get black after replacement. in my case yesterday it got black just after running for 3 kms


hi BHP,
If oil and filter both were changed after patiently draining the old oil , no way oil should get black in 3 km.
You are being taken for a ride mate.
either they didnt change the olf filter / drained the oil completely or didnt change the oil at all.
Get ur oil checked at an independent agency pronto.
The oil can get black after 4-5 Kms itself, so nothing to worry. Its the viscosity you should check. The colour of the oil denotes that it is removing the carbon from the system. Rather you should be worried about if the colour doesn't change, which means the oil flow is not happening.

Last edited by MileCruncher : 17th November 2009 at 21:53.
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