starting problems

[amitoj]

Hi guys

For the past few days, i have been facing some serious starting troubles with my zen (carb, 98 model,1.1 lakh kms) . I have to keep cranking it to get it to start. This happens after i have parked the car for about 8 hours. But once the car starts, i can stop and start it n number of times.

I took it to a MASS and they said its a battery problem. So they charged my car's battery for about 7 to 8 hours and also did complete servicing of the car. But the problem still remained. They were still pretty sure that its a battery problem so they replaced the battery with another one (which was a "good" battery according to them). But again no effect. Today morning again i had the same problem.

I am gonna ask them to send a mechanic tomorrow morning so that he can see the problem first hand, coz once the car starts, the problem is gone.

Any ideas what could be the problem?

Cheers
Amitoj
EDIT: Engine oil was changed at 90K

[zulfikar]

11k and you didnt change Engine Oil...
i use to change it every 4K...MAX 5K...
well on my Sister Deo i do it every 1K...

[Psycho]

get your carb jets checked.... also pump the accelerator a couple of times before you try starting.

[amitoj]

yeah i do pump the accelerator couple of times before starting.
carb jets were also cleaned not long ago. the whole carb setup was overhauled... taken apart and cleaned thoroughly.
will check the engine oil as well. But wait... they did do an oil change when they serviced the car last weekend. thanks for reminding me that zulfi.

[Revvhead]

Even by my excessive standards, a 5K engine oil chage is excessive.

amitoj, i seriously doubt that your problem lies with engine oil.
And considering the amount that you say you are cranking it, there is no way it can be the battery.

What appears to be the problem is more towards the fuel feed.
Since you have a carb Zen, my guess is one of two things.

1. Fuel pump and line. - Its possible that for some reason your fuel line is draining after stopping, so it takes a while for the fuel line to fill up , once its filled up you can restart it easily, or maybe yr fuel pump is slightly weakened, so it takes time initially to fill the empty line. Check that yr fuel line is tightly connected, so that no air creeps in and the line doesnt drain back.

Also check yr fuel filter, may be clogged, casuing a fuel supply blockage initially.

2- Carb jets- as it is a carb zen, i assume that you step on the pedal while starting,
It may be that you are htting a blind spot or have a dirty accelleration jet (i'm not fimiliar with the Zen carb) and thus unable to start immediately. - Use System G to clean out yr jets or clean it out with a strand of wire if you know how.


Anyway, for starters to isolate that problem, try this. a) Start with the Choke on and less acceleartor and see what happens. are you able to start normally??

b) if you know how again- increase the idle speed substantially on the car and try and start
it up without using the gas pedal.

While these are not Fixes, they will haelp you indentify the casue of the problem which sounds very fuel related to me

[Revvhead]

man 2 replies came in while i was typing that long message!!

[iceman91]

there is a vacuum diaphragm on the carb get that checked...it could be leaking

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Revvhead

1. Fuel pump and line. - Its possible that for some reason your fuel line is draining after stopping, so it takes a while for the fuel line to fill up , once its filled up you can restart it easily, or maybe yr fuel pump is slightly weakened, so it takes time initially to fill the empty line. Check that yr fuel line is tightly connected, so that no air creeps in and the line doesnt drain back.

Umm... in that case when u pull out the fuel inlet (dunno wots the technical term) thats going in, there wont be any fuel right? but there was!

Originally Posted by Revvhead

Also check yr fuel filter, may be clogged, casuing a fuel supply blockage initially.

That was also cleaned very recently.

Originally Posted by Revvhead

2- Carb jets- as it is a carb zen, i assume that you step on the pedal while starting,
It may be that you are htting a blind spot or have a dirty accelleration jet (i'm not fimiliar with the Zen carb) and thus unable to start immediately. - Use System G to clean out yr jets or clean it out with a strand of wire if you know how.


Anyway, for starters to isolate that problem, try this. a) Start with the Choke on and less acceleartor and see what happens. are you able to start normally??

b) if you know how again- increase the idle speed substantially on the car and try and start
it up without using the gas pedal.

Both dont have any effect on the problem...

This problem is almost making me pull my hair out!

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by Revvhead

a) Start with the Choke on and less acceleartor and see what happens.

I never thought cars too have Choke like two wheelers. Is it for only carb version or even for MPFI?

[Revvhead]

Damn, all options exhasted!! So much for my "technical" advice!!!!

go with what iceman said, sounded more fundoo!!!!

[Revvhead]

Originally Posted by Surprise

I never thought cars too have Choke like two wheelers. Is it for only carb version or even for MPFI?

it is for carbs only

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Revvhead

Damn, all options exhasted!! So much for my "technical" advice!!!!

go with what iceman said, sounded more fundoo!!!!

well, but there has to be something wrong somewhere...

Hey Ice, when the carb gets overhauled, doesnt the diaphragm also get included?

[Psycho]

carb overhaul in Indian terms means cleaning and does not mean any part has been replaced... the easiest way to check if the enrichment circuit is working fine is to open the air cover and rotate the accelerator manualy if you find a squirt of fuel going down the manifold then everything is fine else you will have to overhaul the carb in the true sense.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Psycho

carb overhaul in Indian terms means cleaning and does not mean any part has been replaced... the easiest way to check if the enrichment circuit is working fine is to open the air cover and rotate the accelerator manualy if you find a squirt of fuel going down the manifold then everything is fine else you will have to overhaul the carb in the true sense.

thanks for clearing that up! One more thing (while you are patient!).. do the probs with carb often manifest as starting problems? and that too only if the car isnt started for around 8 hours?

[hrag]

Not exactly sure what kind of ignition the carb Zen has but might be worth checking that. My old carb Omni's points ignition failed twice - all the symptoms were similar. Battery is able to crank and crank, no problems with the carb or the fuel lines.