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Old 12th October 2009, 11:16   #61
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For the ppl who fail to understand purpose of this thread - has it never occurred to you that driving is not really a conscious activity.
Its more like sub-conscious one, where your brain takes actions without you even realizing it.

It is very much possible that by mistake you try to engage reverse gear, after 5th, or even otherwise.
Even after driving for so many years, there are occasions where even veteran drivers sometimes engage reverse gear while the car is rolling in first (usually while parking).
A novice can certainly do so while in speed.

And if someone wants to know how harmful that activity can be, there is absolutely no reason not to tell him the extent.

Usually if you try to shift to reverse directly from 5th, it doesnt allow. (Or from 1st to reverse in certain other gear boxes).

At very small speeds what I have observed is that even while the clutch is fully depressed, there is this harsh grating sound, as soon as you engage the reverse, which will definitely snap your mind, and bring the vehicle to halt, before the actual release of the clutch.

However, what happens if you ignore the noise, is something I have not experienced.
Would of course want to know what really happens.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:41   #62
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
A novice driver can do this accidentally, can't he? So what is the point in asking "who will want to do it"?
Problem is the definition of a "driver". And that is our biggest problem.

A novice as novice as that shouldn't be at the wheel of any car.

That is why the manufacturer provides the car with a "Owners Manual" and with a strict BOLD CAPITALISED message to read it thoroughly before "driving" the car. It mostly does note "How and When to engage reverse gear".
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Old 12th October 2009, 12:09   #63
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Problem is the definition of a "driver". And that is our biggest problem.

A novice as novice as that shouldn't be at the wheel of any car.

That is why the manufacturer provides the car with a "Owners Manual" and with a strict BOLD CAPITALISED message to read it thoroughly before "driving" the car. It mostly does note "How and When to engage reverse gear".
Well, I almost did it, and I am hardly a novice, just unused to the fifth gear. I have gone through this full thread and seen many people raising this concern, as well as a ruined Santro.

Everyone knows when and when not to shift in to R. We are talking about accidental shifts here. My point is this kind of unintentional shift would be impossible in an older generation, 4 gear car. A newer generation car should have some kind of safety feature to prevent this, when the fifth and reverse gears are in a straight line in a gear shift. Especially when this can result in accidents, forget the damage to the transmission.

I have read a few members mentioning such a feature in Fiats and some other higher-end cars. I would like to know more about it from the owners.

BTW, a novice is one who has not completed at least 10K KM behind the wheel of a car.

Last edited by Gansan : 12th October 2009 at 12:16.
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Old 12th October 2009, 13:19   #64
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Default Shifting into reverse from 5th gear at high speed

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Of course it is certainly possible to shift into reverse gear when you are travelling at high speed in the forward direction! Provided of course you're prepared to wrestle a bit with the vehicle (it has to be an older vehicle though since the new ones have some kind of preventive system.)

Only - be prepared to deal with a complete set of beautifully stripped gears and gear box as well as a ruined differential gear system which of course will be on holiday forever forthwith, along with a wrecked vehicle.

Oh - I forgot - it might be handy to wear ear-plugs (unless of course you like hearing the sound of wrenching metal), a helmet and fire proof gear as well as carry an extinguisher etc with you while attempting such interesting maneuvres.

And last, but not least, do please extend a ring side seat invite to us other BHP chaps so we can applaud your courage as well as be on hand for any help you may need!

Sarcasm and jokes apart my friend, I fail to understand the purport of the query.

Do let us know!

Happy Diwali in advance!
You hit it on the head.!
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Old 12th October 2009, 14:03   #65
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Thank you Alpha1 for your reply. I will beg to disagree with your answer, not trying to be rude or anything which you will understand as i tackle your reply point by point. Please do not take this reply of mine in any other sense. I am not here to offend or belittle anyone, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
For the ppl who fail to understand purpose of this thread - has it never occurred to you that driving is not really a conscious activity.
Its more like sub-conscious one, where your brain takes actions without you even realizing it.
IMHO driving is not entirely or continuously subconscious. It gets that way when the driver gets experienced over a period of time. This period may differ from person to person. Still when driving one has to be alert at all times, which is not so in a sub conscious activity. In any case a driver for whom driving becomes a sub conscious activity can not feign ignorance about such a trivial issue.

Also if someone wants to know, they can go through this very informative thread. All that can be said is already been said in the past pages. The person wanting to know the outcome should go through the thread, not pose another similar or same question.



Quote:
It is very much possible that by mistake you try to engage reverse gear, after 5th, or even otherwise.
Yes by mistake... and mistakes happen just once or so, but then, you know its a mistake. What is the purpose of finding out whether it can be repeated. Of course it cant and that is one of the first things they teach you at driving school. It sis also against the very basic laws of Physics.

Quote:
Even after driving for so many years, there are occasions where even veteran drivers sometimes engage reverse gear while the car is rolling in first (usually while parking).
A novice can certainly do so while in speed.
My dear friend, it is best that such drivers not handle the car. The reverse in any car or shift pattern is very much away from the first. It is practically impossible even by mistake, to shift to reverse, when a car is already in the first gear,. That would require, im sorry to be blunt, great skills to be able to do that.

This can be done, mistakenly, by a driver who is not aware of the shift pattern of a particular car, say a new person for the car of a vale. Not someone who drives regularly the same car.

Quote:
And if someone wants to know how harmful that activity can be, there is absolutely no reason not to tell him the extent.
Please dear friend, there are 5 pages of the thread telling everyone it is harmful. What more could one add?? It is harmful, period, dont try stunts. Thats that. What can one not understand in this.

Quote:
Usually if you try to shift to reverse directly from 5th, it doesnt allow. (Or from 1st to reverse in certain other gear boxes).
Now we are on the same plain.

Quote:
At very small speeds what I have observed is that even while the clutch is fully depressed, there is this harsh grating sound, as soon as you engage the reverse, which will definitely snap your mind, and bring the vehicle to halt, before the actual release of the clutch.
Thats the gear box telling you dont do this. And your mind will not be the only thing that will snap. The gearbox will snap before your mind.

Quote:
However, what happens if you ignore the noise, is something I have not experienced.
Would of course want to know what really happens.
The gearbox will snap. Please go through the entire thread this has been said almost in every reply.

Last edited by V-16 : 12th October 2009 at 14:05.
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Old 12th October 2009, 14:16   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
For the ppl who fail to understand purpose of this thread - has it never occurred to you that driving is not really a conscious activity.
Its more like sub-conscious one, where your brain takes actions without you even realizing it.
I am sorry but I have to disagree to this point. Driving has always been a conscious activity for me.

When driving becomes a sub conscious activity its better to take a break and have an espresso.

Its best to be alert while driving to avoid any accidents including shifting to reverse accidently.
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Old 12th October 2009, 14:36   #67
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Quote:
I am sorry but I have to disagree to this point. Driving has always been a conscious activity for me.

When driving becomes a sub conscious activity its better to take a break and have an espresso.

Its best to be alert while driving to avoid any accidents including shifting to reverse accidently.
By subconcious he didn't mean drowsy. Once you get used to driving a car, you dont have to think about what gear you need or how the pedals are supposed to be used. It all comes automatically.

Reversing into neutral can only happen when someone is learning to driving or getting used a car which is different from what he's used to.

Like when i drove Rudras optra, i had a tough time getting used to the wiper and headlight controls. Everytime i had to use the indicators, the wipers used to come on. Thats coz even though i was trying to rem what needs to be done, i was subcounciously tracing back to my original driving style.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 12th October 2009 at 14:38.
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Old 12th October 2009, 20:13   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Well, I almost did it, and I am hardly a novice, just unused to the fifth gear. I have gone through this full thread and seen many people raising this concern, as well as a ruined Santro.

My point is this kind of unintentional shift would be impossible in an older generation, 4 gear car. A newer generation car should have some kind of safety feature to prevent this, when the fifth and reverse gears are in a straight line in a gear shift. Especially when this can result in accidents, forget the damage to the transmission.

I have read a few members mentioning such a feature in Fiats and some other higher-end cars. I would like to know more about it from the owners.

BTW, a novice is one who has not completed at least 10K KM behind the wheel of a car.
Read the thread title. That says it all. you dont seem to have gone through the thread as you claim.

A novice asking questions like that is ok but experienced drivers?

I can understand you having driven a four speed but in a four speed the reverse is totally away and never in a straight line shift pattern. In fact you should have not even tried upshifting in a 5 speed equipped car as you are not used to shifting further than 4 speeds. Anyways that could be a mistake, point noted, accepted and cleared.

As for the ruined Santro, serves him right for trying stunts. He shpuld not be alloe\wed anywhere near another car. One has to be downright stupid to try this. This not even a novice would try.

Quote:
Everyone knows when and when not to shift in to R. We are talking about accidental shifts here.
If everyone knows this simple question why waste everyones time with a juvenile query?
And if you have read the thread as claimed, it is not directed towards accidential shifts.

Quote:
It should not be possible for this to happen. There must be a safety device to prevent this.
Quote:
I did not "want" to do it (who would?). I said it was accidental. And it should not happen even accidentally, the system must be fool proof.
As regards a safety feature, there are some cars like the VWs and Fiats where either the lever needs to be pressed or lifted as in the Merc but the sound of the grinding gearbox is a safety feature in itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
A novice driver can do this accidentally, can't he? So what is the point in asking "who will want to do it"?

My point is, in the 4 gear cars this would be impossible. 5 gears came later and should have some means to prevent this. I am sure there are some cars which have such a mechanism.
Looking at this thread, nothing is impossible, if one can dream about shifting to reverse in speed, one can also try similar stunts in a four speed car. hat is there to stop anyone, especially a novice as you put it. I dont want to give anyone ideas about a new thread based on what i have said above.

Guys, one request, please read the thread title. It says shifting to reverse at high speeds? The thread starter has nowhere claimed he is a novice (although asking such a question does reveal that aspect of his personality). And he never said it would be accidental. My point of hwo will want to do it is this exactly...what i have mentioned above. The question was asked in jest and was duly answered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
By subconcious he didn't mean drowsy. Once you get used to driving a car, you dont have to think about what gear you need or how the pedals are supposed to be used. It all comes automatically.

Reversing in neutral can only happen when someone is learning to driving or getting used a car which is different from what he's used to.

Like when i drove Rudras optra, i had a tough time getting used to the wiper and headlight controls. Everytime i had to use the indicators, the wipers used to come on. Thats coz even though i was trying to rem what needs to be done, i was subcounciously tracing back to my original driving style.

Shan2nu
Agreed Shan2nu but shifting into reverse when in speed??? That is the title of the thread. Will you even dreaming of doing something like this subconciously?? I think not, not even by mistake, even in a sub conscious state one wouldnt do that. One has to be stoned to do it when in speed.

Regarding one not being familiar with a new car i can understand and have even listed it above as one of the exceptions when this sort of thing may happen, the user being unfamiliar but not when in speed. Secondly handling tyrn and wiper levers is not the same as wanting to shift to reverse in high speeds.

And what is the thread title... Is it possible to shift into reverse at a high speed?

In high speed???....why would anyone want to do such a moronic thing?

Someone asked a question in fun and recieved a lot of replies of a similar kind. Have those expalnations not been enough for certain people?

The thread required one answer..."No it is not and nor is it recommended" Period. He got several similar ones.

Why do we all have to go on and on about a weird (sorry but this is the last straw...someone trying to portray this question as legitimate) question which has outlived its answer. Are we trying to say that yes it is possible?? I would love to hear someone answer this one.

Also may i request all to read the title and go through the rest of the thread before putting up questions please??!! Everything there is to know about this is mentioned in the first few pages of the thread itself.

Last edited by V-16 : 12th October 2009 at 20:21. Reason: add
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Old 13th October 2009, 04:02   #69
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Default Is it possible to shift into reverse at a high speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Read the thread title. That says it all. you dont seem to have gone through the thread as you claim.

A novice asking questions like that is ok but experienced drivers?

I can understand you having driven a four speed but in a four speed the reverse is totally away and never in a straight line shift pattern. In fact you should have not even tried upshifting in a 5 speed equipped car as you are not used to shifting further than 4 speeds. Anyways that could be a mistake, point noted, accepted and cleared.

As for the ruined Santro, serves him right for trying stunts. He shpuld not be alloe\wed anywhere near another car. One has to be downright stupid to try this. This not even a novice would try.



If everyone knows this simple question why waste everyones time with a juvenile query?
And if you have read the thread as claimed, it is not directed towards accidential shifts.




As regards a safety feature, there are some cars like the VWs and Fiats where either the lever needs to be pressed or lifted as in the Merc but the sound of the grinding gearbox is a safety feature in itself.




Looking at this thread, nothing is impossible, if one can dream about shifting to reverse in speed, one can also try similar stunts in a four speed car. hat is there to stop anyone, especially a novice as you put it. I dont want to give anyone ideas about a new thread based on what i have said above.

Guys, one request, please read the thread title. It says shifting to reverse at high speeds? The thread starter has nowhere claimed he is a novice (although asking such a question does reveal that aspect of his personality). And he never said it would be accidental. My point of hwo will want to do it is this exactly...what i have mentioned above. The question was asked in jest and was duly answered.




Agreed Shan2nu but shifting into reverse when in speed??? That is the title of the thread. Will you even dreaming of doing something like this subconciously?? I think not, not even by mistake, even in a sub conscious state one wouldnt do that. One has to be stoned to do it when in speed.

Regarding one not being familiar with a new car i can understand and have even listed it above as one of the exceptions when this sort of thing may happen, the user being unfamiliar but not when in speed. Secondly handling tyrn and wiper levers is not the same as wanting to shift to reverse in high speeds.

And what is the thread title... Is it possible to shift into reverse at a high speed?

In high speed???....why would anyone want to do such a moronic thing?

Someone asked a question in fun and recieved a lot of replies of a similar kind. Have those expalnations not been enough for certain people?

The thread required one answer..."No it is not and nor is it recommended" Period. He got several similar ones.

Why do we all have to go on and on about a weird (sorry but this is the last straw...someone trying to portray this question as legitimate) question which has outlived its answer. Are we trying to say that yes it is possible?? I would love to hear someone answer this one.

Also may i request all to read the title and go through the rest of the thread before putting up questions please??!! Everything there is to know about this is mentioned in the first few pages of the thread itself.
Enough is said on this subject. I think that the thread should be closed now.
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Old 13th October 2009, 11:23   #70
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Quote:
Agreed Shan2nu but shifting into reverse when in speed??? That is the title of the thread. Will you even dreaming of doing something like this subconciously?? I think not, not even by mistake, even in a sub conscious state one wouldnt do that. One has to be stoned to do it when in speed.

Regarding one not being familiar with a new car i can understand and have even listed it above as one of the exceptions when this sort of thing may happen, the user being unfamiliar but not when in speed. Secondly handling tyrn and wiper levers is not the same as wanting to shift to reverse in high speeds.

That was a typo, i meant to say reverse not neutral.

Imagine someone who is used to a 6 speed manual. The 6th gear is usually where the reverse is. Now if this guy was to drive a 5 speed manual, there is a chance he might forget this car has a reverse where he usually finds 6th.

So i wouldn't say its impossible for such things to happen.

http://www.redline.co.za/pics/Nissan...%206-speed.jpg

This is very much similar to my Optra experience.

Moreover, the thread starter had no intentions of trying it out. He just wanted to know what would be the outcome if something like this was to happen. Just a technical curiosity.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 13th October 2009 at 11:24.
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Old 13th October 2009, 11:47   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I have read a few members mentioning such a feature in Fiats and some other higher-end cars. I would like to know more about it from the owners.
In the Palio MJD the reverse gear can only be engaged by lifting a ring at the bottom of the gear knob. This was advertised as one of the features (reverse gear lock) along with double crank prevention mechanism.
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Old 13th October 2009, 11:48   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
I can understand you having driven a four speed but in a four speed the reverse is totally away and never in a straight line shift pattern. In fact you should have not even tried upshifting in a 5 speed equipped car as you are not used to shifting further than 4 speeds. Anyways that could be a mistake, point noted, accepted and cleared.
Well, I have recently bought the car, so I really can't restrict myself to the 4th gear always, can I? I have to get used to it asap.

I know the thread title is not directed towards accidental shifts, but my query was. It was more like "is there a preventive measure in any car, and if so why all makers don't provide it". I almost did it and I was at speed, down shifting to 4th at ~ 55 KPH. I did not want to start a separate thread for this.

Anyway the answer is now clear - there is no preventive measure in most cars. Period.
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Old 13th October 2009, 12:41   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan
"is there a preventive measure in any car, and if so why all makers don't provide it"
Some gearboxes do come with it. But, I bet the 99.99% of the 53,000+ members on here never needed it.
'Nuff said!
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Old 13th October 2009, 12:44   #74
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The query may seem juvenile and pointless to some but any burning query in mind needs to be rested.
There was a great series on Discovery "Myth-busters" someone asked the same question and they tested it out on 3/4 different cars and myth was busted. That is reverse can not be engaged while car is in forward motion just great screeching sound.

You can search it out I am sure video must be out there on You Tube.
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:11   #75
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So the conclusion is that the gearbox will be fine and it is impossible to engage reverse at high speed?
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