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Old 27th November 2009, 10:27   #46
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My M800 has done 50K without any clutch issue.
The ZX VTEC done 80K without any clutch issue.
Neither have any signs of clutch problem till date.

By the way I was quite psyched into thinking that the mumbai traffic would ware out the clutch prematurely. Especially on a gradient / slope associated with bumper to bumper traffic, which i go through every day.

May be that I am conscious of clutch usage they have lasted this long ? or may they were meant to anyway last this long ?

the service center (not the authorised) that i visit often, tells me, the clutch lasts around 1,00,000 Km but these days they do find early failures many due to clutch riding or excess use of clutch in stop & go traffic.
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Old 27th November 2009, 10:37   #47
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...tch-plate.html

we have heard of premature clutch wear in the SX4. the above thread has a few examples
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Old 27th November 2009, 16:35   #48
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Dear all veterans, the knowledgable and Enthusiasts

My Astra's clutch was and continues to jutter for which the clutch plate has been changed thrice (the car would have run 3500 Kms in between these replacements without riding on the clutch). Once by GM's authorised dealer, the second time by a local Service Station in Delhi and the last being at Pandit and Co, Okhla New Delhi, who literally looted me. I accept,!

The juttering continues and I see no point going back to Pandit &CO the fourth time sorting out this particular problem. Apart from this Pandit was to do routine service of my car and in the process damaged the ECM and the sensor as a result of which the the engine's rev go up abnoramally without having tapped the accelerator. Mr. Pandit with his glib talking hasnt been able to sort out either of these issues and I have reconciled to the fact that it was a mistake going to his place.

While I am undoubtedly stupid that atleast three people have heavily fleeced me, I seek your opinion and possible solution to the clutch juttering and of course tackling the revs please (Why I am not disposing my 12 year old Astra ? As like most others, I am so called emotionally attached to my first car! This is a stupid and honest confession!) Please help

Last edited by sandeep.mishra : 27th November 2009 at 16:47.
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Old 27th November 2009, 16:42   #49
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Pratham and Bimal are notorious for their high repair bills and estimates for unwarranted tasks. In case you could not ascertain the condition of the clutch, get it checked by any good garage/experienced driver and then decide where to go for its repair/replacement if required.
I have heard that Suraksha is pretty decent, though I m have never been there.
In case you seem to be completely lost, PM me and lets move on from there.
And yes, tell your friend not to worry.

Last edited by Dippy : 30th November 2009 at 09:34. Reason: Please avoid quoting an entire long post when replying to a thread. Makes it difficult for other members to read. Thanks.
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Old 27th November 2009, 17:18   #50
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Great Post GTO.

I have my wallet burned with this scam as well. Early this year I took my Palio to TASS and they advised for a clutch plate replacement claiming that it is dying. The car has run around 43K. I reluctanty agreed - I am in India usually a couple of months an year and do not want my dad to face any problems with the car. Also one must note that the labour charge for clutch overhaul is quite high..around 1000 bucks.

Now here is the bad part. They changed the clutch plate, but apparently they weren't well trained and they couldn't put it together properly. The car started knocking BADLY if the revs went a little down. They said it will settle with time...but it didn't. I had to take it to my local palio garage and they fixed it by replacing the plate again. When I brought this up with the TASS, they said it must have got damaged by bad driving..within a month.

So I fully endorse your post and caution other BHPians - unless you can feel a problem with clutch, do not go ahead with clutch overhaul just at the behest of service advisor.
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Old 27th November 2009, 17:49   #51
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OT: I normally takes my ikon TDci in 2nd gear unless the vehicle is loaded or is in a slope as i feel the first gear is a crawler and rpm climbs too quickly.No cluthc slipping though. I'm i doing anything seriously wrong here?

Thanks GTO for a well informative post.
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Old 27th November 2009, 18:27   #52
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Thanks GTO for this insight into the scam. Like the clutch, there might be many other parts in a car which can work fine with a little servicing and upkeep. Can you throw some light on any other such components which might not need a replacement but the service stations would insist on replacing just for the sake of profits?

One example I can give is of my bike. My engine was making a lot of noise and the authorized service stations and couple of other mechanics said a lot of parts will have to be replaced and they gave me outrageous estimates for the repair amounting to Rs.5000 - 6000. Finally I took it to one of my old but forgotten mechanics. He told me that nothing was wrong with the engine. He just made some minor adjustment to the trepid and guide chain, and from then on my bikes engine and pick-up has been better than ever. It took just ten minutes and Rs.250. I was thinking of selling off my bike but this guy said it can easily go on for another five years. I am glad I listened to him.

In such a scam scenario, one advice would be to have one well-versed and trusted local mechanic who can look at your car and advice repairs. Local mechanics will always give you the best possible options instead of just blatantly ordering a part replacement.
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Old 27th November 2009, 18:56   #53
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Something similar happened to me around a year back, during my regular service checkup test drive the service guy at the Prime Honda suggested me that the clutch is dying and will not last more than 1.5-2K and needs to be changed immediately.
I kinda didn't trust the guy and asked him to go ahead without the clutch change. I drove normally(though cautiously and kinda afraid of high revving at lower gears) after the service and didn't notice anything. After 6 month of normal drive in the next scheduled service some other service attendant test drove my car and when i asked the question about bad clutch (????) he said the clutch is working perfectly and the pick up is also good. From that service onwards i have had 3 services done and no issues of clutch reported.
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Old 27th November 2009, 22:25   #54
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My own experience of clutch replacement !

This reminds me of the time when my swift started juddering in 1st gear around the 20 K mark, i took it for the 20 K service to pratham motors and after the service manager went for a test drive, he came back and asked me a question, "Sir, how many people use this car ? " This struck me like a lightning bolt and after thinking for 5 mins, listed down the regular users as

1. Me
2. My brother
3. Brother's driver
4. Neighbor
5. Brother's friend
6. A friend of mine
7. Office colleague
8. Another colleague

?!?!?!??!

Quite evident that different driving styles did result in the early wearing out of the clutch !!

Anyways, he suggested me not to change the clutch and said that he would get it adjusted and lubricated, etc Im really happy to note their attitude and the fact that it lasted another 20 K more !!!!

I just replaced the clutch assy during the 40 K service and the juddering has completely vanished, with the pedal becoming as smooth as butter
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Old 27th November 2009, 23:24   #55
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I drove my 1995 esteem till 70,000 kms(2009). No clutch change at all.

It was not that soft, but absolutely no hardness while changing gears.
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Old 28th November 2009, 11:57   #56
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My SA said that the clutch is a bit hard, although I do feel the same way.

I actually replaced the clutch around 60k. Surprising how it went bad just after 15k. I don't ride clutch at all, but then the car was driven by a driver earlier. The SA suspects defective parts (I got it changed with a local garage).

But he did not change the clutch as there is still some life left in it.
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Old 28th November 2009, 12:21   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
I agree with you GTO. but its not common only with clutch jobs, even customers are taken for a ride for most engine and suspension jobs.

My advise to anyone going forward with any expensive job after being advised by a service advisor is to take a alternative advice from some other trusted place.
Words of wisdom, Anshuman. Though the clutch scam is the most rampant, I'm pretty certain other expensive parts are also replaced unnecessarily.

You guys do know that some service advisors have monthly targets right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Decarbonising, additives, anti rust coats and wiring lamination are money making tricks from most service centers, i would advise you to stay away from them at every service.
I actually have a lot of fun when someone tries to pull a fast one and upsell to me. Typically, my responses are technical, to which the poor fella has no answer at all. I then tell him that I'm a car guy and to simply shut up.

Coming back to your post : some other money making tactics are teflon, engine flushing (ever so often at 600 bucks a pop), engine additives, decarbing etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m-hawk View Post
Ok what can be done for my 32k driven innova having a hard clutch !!! my trusted mechanic say s in hydraulic clutch there ain t any cable what do i grease ??
Quoting SS-Travellers excellent post from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The City ZX has a hydraulic clutch. Check clutch fluid level, top up and bleed as required. The stiffness will disappear.

To check if your clutch is slipping, jam the handbrake, put the car into 3rd gear, rev up to 3000 rpm, and introduce the clutch gently. If the revs don't slow down as you try to maintain them by further depressing the accelerator (i.e. the revs stay up), you've got clutch slippage. Litmus test, but don't try it more than once or twice. You burn out 1000km worth of clutch life at each go.

Good luck, but check that your handbrake's fully functional first!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
My Alto's clutch was replaced under warranty at 3000kms.
Hey, I have no problem with warranty replacements. In fact, I'd love it if every car manufacturer gave me a new clutch on the last day of my warranty coverage

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep.mishra View Post
I seek your opinion and possible solution to the clutch juttering and of course tackling the revs please
Please have your flywheel checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatpower View Post
Also one must note that the labour charge for clutch overhaul is quite high..around 1000 bucks.
Bingo! Mega bucks right there. High labour charges + expensive replacement parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullboy View Post
OT: I normally takes my ikon TDci in 2nd gear unless the vehicle is loaded or is in a slope as i feel the first gear is a crawler and rpm climbs too quickly.
In all probability, this will lead to faster clutch wear. You will require atleast some clutch slipping to get rolling in a 2nd gear start? The Ikon has such a sweet short throw gearbox. C'mon, use it and start off in 1st!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum_torque View Post
Like the clutch, there might be many other parts in a car which can work fine with a little servicing and upkeep. Can you throw some light on any other such components which might not need a replacement but the service stations would insist on replacing just for the sake of profits?
Do look up the conversation between anshuman & myself (top of this post itself).
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Old 28th November 2009, 16:27   #58
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It could also depend on your driving style / traffic conditions.
With Bangalore's crawling traffic, clutch driving is un-avoidable which leads to an early packup.

-- Torqy
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Old 28th November 2009, 21:01   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
I was shocked,as I had never expected this.
and they were ready to put the back the old clutch after jumping on it
Saar ye chal jayega 8-10000kms(it will work for another 8-10K kms).
To be on safer side and avoid any complications,i chose to replace the whole thing
That is very wierd behavior

Thanks GTO that excellent article
My Alto's clutch genuinely gave up at 45000kms. Then at 90000kms,clutch was hard and the SA correctly advised that it could be the cable problem. However at the 1 lakh service, a different SA conned me for a complete overhaul.
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Old 28th November 2009, 21:30   #60
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i have survived this trick many times. this trick is used mostly in free service check up camps. my alto had no issues with the clutch. just looking at the odo the service advisor said clutch needs to be replaced.

but later on my clutch got a bit hard. but it wasnt slipping at all. everyone recommended clutch overhaul. still i used the same clutch for around 12000 kms.

then finally the friendly advisor as MASS changed the cable first. still things dint work. so he switched back to old cable and then opened the clutch.
the clutch plates were as good as new. had done 50000 plus by then.

but the pressure plates had become hard. had no option than changing the clutch. i be hadnt it been a hard pressure plate my clutch plates would have lasted another 30000 kms easily
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