Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th February 2010, 21:43   #136
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 362
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

Please please GTO Sir give your coment here.
jacksons is offline  
Old 26th February 2010, 21:48   #137
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,459 Times
Default

Well, very wierd problem.

But must tell sachin, the protest in the form of stickering is not good, especially after the trouble is diagnosed and sorted out those ugly sticker shadow will remain for ever.

Tyre guru's must say what they feel on this problem.
PAVAN KADAM is offline  
Old 26th February 2010, 23:23   #138
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Nikhilb2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,825
Thanked: 4,791 Times
Default

Well, on such a hot and happening thread, I'm wary of getting involved in long and futile arguments.

Also, photos arent the BEST way of checking the wear on the tyres.

The front tyres anyway seem to be worn more on the insides. I'm finding it hard to see any signs of scrubbing. So, based on the limited knowledge I can gather from the pics, I would stick my head out and say it seems to be a camber issue.

Rear tyres seem ok.

Can Sachin find out what the Camber settings are supposed to be for the Punto sold abroad and for the Punto sold in India? Once he has that, can he go to a reliable tyre dealer and get the measurement only checked?

For example, if the camber is supposed to be +1 degree, what is the MEASURED value? Is it +1 degree 30 mins or 0 degree 30 mins? Or -2 degrees?

I would suggest he goes to a place which has a high end 3D wheel aligner. Darshan tyres and N Mehta tyres spring to mind.
Nikhilb2008 is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 14:50   #139
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 42
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Even my Fiat has a lil drag towards left, (Steering When abs straight car goes a lil towards left) I thought its coz of Alignment havent been able to get it rectified coz the Dealer near my hone doesnt have Fiat punto's data. Will need to go to rama. Hope it is nothing like this.
physicspsyche is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 17:01   #140
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 334
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

I agree with Anil, Sachin should test the camber settings on his car. coz, it had started eating the tyres on car and fixed it with the help of a FIAT mechanic. Now, it is fine. I really wonder how could FIAT plant misses out on such a simple testing if this is going to be the root cause
ravikn is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 17:25   #141
BHPian
 
theEnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 534
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Wow.. this is a long thread. Looking at the pictures of the tyres, certainly there is some additional wear on the insides as compared to the outsides.. but it doesn't look very alarming. Do you have any other pictures?

The letter from Fiat is quite shocking. To blame curvy roads for excessive tyre wear is to admit that your product does not perform properly.

Sachin's method of protest is brilliant. Large corporations will stall and oppose complaints as much as possible. Its best to hit them where it hurts with some negative publicity.

I was considering a Linea/Punto as my next car but that's very unlikely now.
theEnd is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 18:05   #142
Senior - BHPian
 
IQBAL VEERJI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SAAT BUNGLA, BAMBAI.
Posts: 1,040
Thanked: 282 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
@Sachin,

I would like to ask you this question! Who gave you this information about the car being taken to the Fiat factory to fix something in your car.

Atleast, I havent heard any car being taken to the factory for fixing a issue of this sort. I am not trying to say that its not a serious problem, but... if it was the dealer who told you this story of the car being taken to the Fiat factory for fixing this issue then I am skeptical about this information from the dealer.

To add to all this confusion, the dealer has infact offered you free set of tires during your initial complaint which always raises huge doubts about the dealer trying to hide something big!

Can you clear air on this information and please do take your car to tyre specialists and get the alignment & wheel balancing done. Let them know about this problems and I am sure you will have an answer to this. A GP is not seriously rocket science you see...
Hi. I would like to write about a incident about 27 years ago or so. Bajaj Tempo had introduced a six wheeler tempo looking similar to regular four wheeler deisel tempo F 307. This tempo was a six wheeler had a mercedez 4 cylinder engine impoted from germany for this vehicles and the engine was silken smooth in running , but the vehicle had other seriouse problems like suspension,gearbox,and so on.
My friend in Mahim brought one of these tempos and became part of other sufferrs who were already in the soup with problems. But my friend went to the workshop in worli and gave the entire staff and higher ups left and right, used foul language also and was finnlly told that tempo will go to factory in Akurdi pune and problems solved ,which he agreed and drove down to pune himself to the factory . After 4 weeks the tempo was driven back to mumbai and delivered to my friend with not only his so called problems tottaly but also some of the critical,expensive parts replaced by new ones FREE OF COST and the tempo was far better then NEW.He used it for number of years till new 407 was introduced by TATA.
IQBAL VEERJI is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 18:36   #143
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: -
Posts: 4,705
Thanked: 3,845 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
Sachin requested me to post the mail which he got from Fiat. Below is the mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anand.Kumar@fiapl.com
To: sachinrthakkar@hotmail.com
CC: vrm@tatamotors.com; Ravi.Bhatia@fiapl.com; rajeev.kapoor@fiat.com; vikram.sinha@tatamotors.com
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:51:56 +0530
Subject: Re: Grievance


Dear Mr. Thakkar,

Based upon the inputs received from the dealership, in-plant inputs, test results on other test vehicles and versions of all those who are responsible for the technical parameters of the vehicle in question, we confirm that your vehicle meets the specifications of a perfect road worthy vehicle and there is nothing wrong therewith.

Tyre wear has a direct relationship to driving habits (speed, braking, turning etc.,) on curves and the amount of drag, traction due to speed leads to additional friction on the tyre and its tyre wear pattern. Road, contour, and topography of the terrain, contributes a lot to the load coming on tyre due to friction generated between the vehicle tyre(s) and the road surface.

Based on our technical evaluation, we can only conclude that the type of terrain - curvy / winding roads your car admittedly transits each day is responsible for type of tyre wear noted in your vehicle.

In the circumstances we can only state that your car is fully healthy and we can do nothing more than what we have already done so far for factors beyond our control and you are requested to take note accordingly. It may also be stated that all vehicles using such or similar terrain will have similar tyre wear pattern. We are therefore treating the matter as closed at our end.

We further request you to refrain from undesirable and incorrect propaganda seen from your side so far.
As far as performance of the vehicle is concerned, we can assure you that the vehicle will continue to perform to expected standards.

What work have you guys done? Any written update from the workshop in this?


In the unlikely event that it doesn’t, we will ensure that we do whatever is needed, of-course strictly within the terms and conditions of warranty.

We remain at your service, as always,


You better be. We expect customer centric service from you after spending hard earned money of 7 lakh in your product. But this attitude is simply disgusting.

Warm Regards
Anand Kumar
--------------------------------------------------------------------
@Mod:Can you please add "Official mail included on Page 7" to the heading.


I have bruised and abused my santro's michelins in Delhi roads at every curve and nothing has happened, and Mr. Sachin has got his 4 tyres changed at 14,000 kms, and is this the way Fiat has responded?

I think that a serious problem lay in either steering or suspension geometry. Maybe another possibility could be the car had hit a major pothole while being transported to stockyard/driven by dealer personal before being delivered to Sachin.

But I suspect it is a serious case of manufacturing defect.

Last edited by sidindica : 27th February 2010 at 18:39.
sidindica is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 18:50   #144
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ERNAKULAM
Posts: 947
Thanked: 317 Times
Default This is the TATA effect on FIAT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
Sachin requested me to post the mail which he got from Fiat. Below is the mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------



Dear Mr. Thakkar,

Based on our technical evaluation, we can only conclude that the type of terrain - curvy / winding roads your car admittedly transits each day is responsible for type of tyre wear noted in your vehicle.
We further request you to refrain from undesirable and incorrect propaganda seen from your side so far.

Warm Regards
Anand Kumar
I did not expect it so soon but this is the same response I got from TATA when I displayed a sticker which stated " More troubles per car" The sticker had an arrow pointed to the roads.

They filed a defamation case against me years ago which I won.
The judge ruled I could display any sticker on my car as long as it was not vulgar or broke the RTO rules.

Since TATA services FIAT its probably a well rehearsed reply.
In my case they blamed clutch problem, oil leakage, blower speed inconsistency, poor acceleration, inability to cross railway over bridge in Ernakulam, head gasket problem, poor fuel efficiency, tire wear, poor mileage, poor ac cooling, heavy oil consumption to the tune of 1 ml for every kilometer run, timing belt tensioner whine problem, valve clearance problem and many more due to the poor condition of the roads in Kerala. When the judge heard this argument in court which I originally filed in the year 2001 he ruled in my favor in 2004. The rest as you know is history. Case files went missing from the court and the case postponed for hearing finally on 11th January 2010 where I won. Have to wait another 3 months to get the copy of the order.

When I retire from my profession I am going to fight cases for a nominal sum against automobile manufacturers in India for any individual approaching me for help.
drpullockaran is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 18:51   #145
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,406
Thanked: 1,538 Times
Default

sachin i suggest you to drive your stickered punto to FIAT ranjangaon plant.
on the gate tell them that you are desperate to meet CEO in person.
let every employee see your car and feel a bit ashamed. i am sure you will be able to meet atleast one of the top officials.
Keep your stand that you are not convinced about anand kumars explanation.

what a bullshit reason they have given you. driving in ghats lead to tyre wear out. that too 4 tyres within 14000 kms.

i have driven my alto with stock JK tyres in dirtiest of the terrains and ghats regularly in Kolhapur and some villages (off roading).
My stock tyres remained intact for 35000 kms before they started wearing out.

i suggest sachin to check the wheel alignment and post the report here on Team BHP. we can then comment well.
amit_mechengg is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 19:11   #146
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore Cantonment
Posts: 1,642
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
sachin i suggest you to drive your stickered punto to FIAT ranjangaon plant.
on the gate tell them that you are desperate to meet CEO in person.
let every employee see your car and feel a bit ashamed. i am sure you will be able to meet atleast one of the top officials.
This the best thing to do!!

Monday morning, just drive to the Plant..
arun1100 is offline  
Old 27th February 2010, 21:05   #147
Senior - BHPian
 
Ricky_63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 3,845
Thanked: 375 Times
Default

The most ridiculous & hilarious excuse that companies offer for uneven tyre wear or suspension is "bad roads" in India.

My question is - "don't they run these cars IN INDIA, ON INDIAN ROADS, for thousands of kms" before putting them out in the market ? Yes they do - so the very excuse of bad roads in "India" is NO EXCUSE to my mind.

Let them accept a problem - solve it - and build a goodwill. I wonder what the top honchos really do ? Especially those concerned with QC & Customer care ? Sit in their offices & let the "juniors" handle complaints.

Usually one gets the standard reply, like "we are looking at the problem, we shall get back to you shortly" CRAP if you ask me. But then this is India, One of the largest consumers of automobiles, so even the CEO's just shut their eyes. IT IS NOT FAIR.

For them it is just another car, but for the owner it is "the car"

I do not know if this rant will reach anywhere, but I am just trying to put things in a real life situation.

Can we sun a signature campaign - which reaches the right people? Now that the car companies are actually letting our Forum test out & review cars.

Last edited by Ricky_63 : 27th February 2010 at 21:07.
Ricky_63 is offline  
Old 28th February 2010, 13:52   #148
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 362
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

Quote:
I think that a serious problem lay in either steering or suspension geometry. Maybe another possibility could be the car had hit a major pothole while being transported to stockyard/driven by dealer personal before being delivered to Sachin.
Talking blindly, is not possible that Sachin would have hit it some time after taking delivery. We read lot of Add hear in Delhi about Lavasa being under construction and Delhi roads are not that much Curvy as hilly roads are.
People are just shocked about letter written by Fiat without reasoning it.
Try to google why tyers wear off on the curvy and winding roads ?
jacksons is offline  
Old 3rd March 2010, 21:11   #149
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pune - Now in Munich, Germany
Posts: 759
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

@Nikhilb2008: I have dropped a mail to Sachin to get the following information you needed.
pawan_pullarwar is offline  
Old 4th March 2010, 00:36   #150
BHPian
 
BusyBoyKK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 147
Thanked: 55 Times
Default Wake up! Fiat.

Not knowledgeable to comment about the problem being caused by the tyre or road. Certainly, Sachin should have got convinced (that the car is at fault) after a thorough research. Going by that, it is ridiculous to see Fiat's response. Does this mean that 'drive a Punto *conditions apply'?
I was impressed with the way Fiat re-entered Indian market. Only now understood that it still cannot focus on customer service. Why can't these companies or rather managers be a bit generous in attending our grievances.
I think it's time Fiat is taught a lesson. Remember the plight of Skoda's reputation after a similar thread about a TBHPian suffering from A.S.S.

Wake up! Fiat. A stitch in time saves nine (recalling thousands of vehicles later).

@Sachin, intelligent way of publicizing about Fiat.
BusyBoyKK is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Italiano Bellezza - Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 MJD Emotion. EDIT : 2nd Service update DRIV3R Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 71 12th January 2014 23:24
Protest against Tata Motors.EDIT Supreme Court Orders Tata to repair Sumo (pg.40) v1p3r The Indian Car Scene 713 19th January 2013 18:31
Grande Punto Facelift: From baby Maserati to Punto Evo EDIT: Punto 'My Life' on pg.7 sushanthr77 The International Automotive Scene 167 25th November 2011 12:02
Exchanged Swift with Grande Punto EDIT: 15000 kms update .anshuman Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 321 7th July 2010 18:10
Iceberg is home (Fiat Grande Punto) Update: 9000 kms in 4 months kailashnj Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 50 29th May 2010 12:33


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:31.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks