Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th December 2009, 00:06   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
danlalan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: mumbai,JUHU
Posts: 1,597
Thanked: 133 Times
Default

Electrical faults are some of the main reasons for cars catching fire. But how does a car erupt into flames because of that is suprising and how it gets gutted in minutes is even more suprising.

Here are pics of my bro's E that got gutted in flames from an electrical fire near Kharghar. The Back of the car remains intact. Thats where the fuel tank is. Mercedes Benz were asked for an explination but since its been serviced outside and not through a MB service station they couldnt be blamed.

Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 1044
Size:  159.0 KB

Name:  photo1.jpg
Views: 1006
Size:  181.5 KB

Name:  photo3.jpg
Views: 917
Size:  130.4 KB

Name:  photo4.jpg
Views: 943
Size:  182.9 KB


Yea everyone just got out just in time. The good that came out from that is.. A Spanking New E in replacement. Well not free ofcourse. Got a 7 lack disc on the e280

Name:  photo12.jpg
Views: 922
Size:  134.9 KB

Last edited by danlalan : 12th December 2009 at 00:07.
danlalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2009, 00:45   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 80
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Though one keeps their car well serviced and maintain in shape, i feel they need to take extra care in parking their cars and keep away from rats which might mess up with wirings and fuel pipes and lead to unexpected circumstances.
challa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2009, 05:52   #18
BHPian
 
sudharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 281
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by challa View Post
Though one keeps their car well serviced and maintain in shape, i feel they need to take extra care in parking their cars and keep away from rats which might mess up with wirings and fuel pipes and lead to unexpected circumstances.
Also another culprit is the electrical add-ons such as Horns, Alarms, Lights ICE etc. The way the Auto Electricians connect these is much to be desired. Wires joined by twisting them And using Insulation Tapes. And 100s of suspect quality of tapes are in the market which just peels off in the hot and oily atmosphere. I have never seen these guys using any proper crimp connectors and sockets.

The wiring for the ICE are mostly routed along the floor of the vehicle or through the body channels and rubbing of these wires with the metal body parts cannot be ruled out. Also in the engine compartment where the temperature is high, the cable insulation tends to become brittle and crack in due course. There are too many rubber hoses in the engine bay of the modern cars, any short circuit and resultant fire have lots of fuel here ( Petrol, rubber, plastics etc). I don't think most of the Manufacturer is using fire retardent wiring in the cars. Also wrongly rated fuses or absence of them can be a factor in a fire mishap.

If you are having an Electrical / Electronic fuel pump and your fuel line in the Engine compartment ruptures, Petrol will be comtinuously pumped into the the Engine bay till the power is switched off or battery disconnected. On a vehicle with the mechanical fuel pump, as soon as the fuel line ruptures the engine stops and the fuel is cut-off. ( Even though the damage is already done).

Driving long hours continuously won't be a problem as long as there is no fuel leak and or electrical short circuit in the engine compartment.
sudharma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2009, 09:56   #19
BHPian
 
ssengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 146
Thanked: 37 Times
Default

I did this drive with my family in my 4 month old M800. I was driving at the speed of 80-90 km/hr and the fuel capacity is 28 litres (filled up to the brim). As i did night driving, i was not in an intention to stop anywhere in the middle as it was raining outside and unsafe to take a break in a remote place.

But throughout my continuous drive, i was bit upset that i'm not giving a break for my new car and worried if some components would worn out due to this. But luckily nothing happened.

In my 4 month old M800, i have so far done only one change/upgrade. I have replaced my stock headlamps to 100/90 Halonix bulbs with relay and kit done from MASS. Apart from this, i have not done any upgrades to my electrical system. Hope this upgrade will not do any damages to electrical system.

Last edited by Jaggu : 14th December 2009 at 10:37. Reason: Back to back posts, please wait for moderator approval to edit the original post.
ssengo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2009, 11:31   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dombivli
Posts: 2,646
Thanked: 1,215 Times
Default

Well, since you are saying the car was only 4 months old, it may not have completed its running-in period by then. So the only precautions you should be taking are not to high-revv the engine and no sudden accelerations. Shift into higher gears as early as possible, shift into lower gears as late as possible and always try to accelerate gradually/gently. If the initial running in period has not been completed, try to stay within 80kmph. If you cross this you may be high-revving the engine.

Rest assured, running your vehicle for 4-5 hours does not produce any fire. Of course if you are riding with your family, it may produce some sparks from the backseat
honeybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2009, 12:04   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 224
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssengo View Post
In my 4 month old M800, i have so far done only one change/upgrade. I have replaced my stock headlamps to 100/90 Halonix bulbs with relay and kit done from MASS. Apart from this, i have not done any upgrades to my electrical system. Hope this upgrade will not do any damages to electrical system.
I am running 100/90 with relay on my vehicle too. I have heard that 130/100 burns the headlight assembly. However, i wonder if the burning is enough to cause a fire in the car. Can anybody throw a light on this? My car also has LPG fitted in it.
harsha.cs1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2009, 12:23   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
arnabchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MH-04
Posts: 1,319
Thanked: 1,085 Times
Default

I would say that the most susceptible areas would be a short circuit in the electricals system near the fuel lines.

Another reason may be the LPG cylinders installed from local vendors usings sub standard pipe lines. The lines tend to heat up resulting in the sad event.
arnabchak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2009, 14:42   #23
BHPian
 
ssengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 146
Thanked: 37 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.cs1 View Post
I am running 100/90 with relay on my vehicle too. I have heard that 130/100 burns the headlight assembly. However, i wonder if the burning is enough to cause a fire in the car. Can anybody throw a light on this? My car also has LPG fitted in it.
I was strictly adviced by MASS experts not to upgrade to 100/130 for a M800 as it might blow up electrical systems. I mostly do night driving ( covered 6000 kms/4 months) and had to upgrade bulbs to atleast 100/90 and i'm quite satisfied with it. BTW, do you own a M800?
ssengo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 09:25   #24
BHPian
 
sudharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 281
Thanked: 6 Times
Default M800 and high Wattage Headlight Bulbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssengo View Post
I was strictly adviced by MASS experts not to upgrade to 100/130 for a M800 as it might blow up electrical systems. I mostly do night driving ( covered 6000 kms/4 months) and had to upgrade bulbs to atleast 100/90 and i'm quite satisfied with it. BTW, do you own a M800?
Some time back My M800 Head lights were upgraded to 130/100 with additional relay and wiring. But after some time the Head light sockets burnt out. I reverted back to 100/90 bulbs and all seems to be ok.

Not only the Sockets and wiring cannot handle the power but also its a heavy load on the Engine ( noticed sudden drop of speed when headl light are switched on) and the battery hardly charges during the night drives and morning starts were difficult.

My advice is not to go for Higher Wattage bulbs on M800. The stock vehicle is designed for optimum performance. Any additional load deteriorated the performance.
sudharma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 09:26   #25
BHPian
 
sudharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 281
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.cs1 View Post
I am running 100/90 with relay on my vehicle too. I have heard that 130/100 burns the headlight assembly. However, i wonder if the burning is enough to cause a fire in the car. Can anybody throw a light on this? My car also has LPG fitted in it.
You have to be double careful since you use LPG Fuel.
sudharma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 15:21   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 224
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssengo View Post
I was strictly adviced by MASS experts not to upgrade to 100/130 for a M800 as it might blow up electrical systems. I mostly do night driving ( covered 6000 kms/4 months) and had to upgrade bulbs to atleast 100/90 and i'm quite satisfied with it. BTW, do you own a M800?
SSengo, i own a hyundai accent. I too run 100/90s but i would love to have 130/100 considering i do many highway runs. However, i fear an electrical failure, hence i am refraining from upgrading to 130/100. although i have come across persons on this forum comfortably running 130/100 on their santros, i am holding back only because mine is an lpg fitted car and i have to be a little more careful.

Thanks Sudharma, i am being doubly careful at present. however, i am wondering if i can safely employ 130/100, why not. so i was asking if electrical fire of burnt headlight assembly would be wires and holders turning black or could it actually break into flames?
harsha.cs1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 16:44   #27
BHPian
 
sudharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 281
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.cs1 View Post
SSengo, i own a hyundai accent. I too run 100/90s but i would love to have 130/100 considering i do many highway runs. However, i fear an electrical failure, hence i am refraining from upgrading to 130/100. although i have come across persons on this forum comfortably running 130/100 on their santros, i am holding back only because mine is an lpg fitted car and i have to be a little more careful.

Thanks Sudharma, i am being doubly careful at present. however, i am wondering if i can safely employ 130/100, why not. so i was asking if electrical fire of burnt headlight assembly would be wires and holders turning black or could it actually break into flames?
Due to overloading the contacts in the connector will start becoming loose and this creates sparking, the metal will melt , any flameable material in contact with this will start burning unless they are made of fire retardant material. Other material such as bakelite etc will char. Since the wires are connected to the connectors, they catch fire, also if the wiring is spliced and insulation tape ( cheap quality ) will also burn. I don't think fire retardant wires are used in the cares. This is a chain reaction. Once the fire or combustion triangle is complete it there will be fire.

The bigger the vehicle, the bigger the electrical load. So the wires used will be of heavier gauge. Similarly the Maruthi 800s power demand will be lower and hence lower thickness wires.

Once in my Tata Sierra the horn relay contacts fused ( Relay contacts could not handle the Twin horn load) I immediately open the Bonnet and tried to lull the horn wire. I got my fingers burned as the wires have become red hot and the insulation has melted away.

sudharma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 17:32   #28
BHPian
 
ssengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 146
Thanked: 37 Times
Default

Harsha, I hope HY Accent is capable of handling 130/100 relays and wiring. But as you say, you have fitted a LPG, extreme caution to be taken. Please check with HY expert to see if your car can be upgraded to 130/100 with LPG. Good luck.
ssengo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 18:26   #29
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 224
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssengo View Post
I was strictly adviced by MASS experts not to upgrade to 100/130 for a M800 as it might blow up electrical systems. I mostly do night driving ( covered 6000 kms/4 months) and had to upgrade bulbs to atleast 100/90 and i'm quite satisfied with it. BTW, do you own a M800?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudharma View Post
Due to overloading the contacts in the connector will start becoming loose and this creates sparking, the metal will melt , any flameable material in contact with this will start burning unless they are made of fire retardant material. Other material such as bakelite etc will char. Since the wires are connected to the connectors, they catch fire, also if the wiring is spliced and insulation tape ( cheap quality ) will also burn. I don't think fire retardant wires are used in the cares. This is a chain reaction. Once the fire or combustion triangle is complete it there will be fire.

The bigger the vehicle, the bigger the electrical load. So the wires used will be of heavier gauge. Similarly the Maruthi 800s power demand will be lower and hence lower thickness wires.

Once in my Tata Sierra the horn relay contacts fused ( Relay contacts could not handle the Twin horn load) I immediately open the Bonnet and tried to lull the horn wire. I got my fingers burned as the wires have become red hot and the insulation has melted away.
Thanks Satish and Ssengo,
The Hyundai auto electrician told me no major issues in trying 130/100 but it might darken the headlight assembly. But still why take a chance types. I guess i will stick on with 100/90 as i am happy with it for now. and the car being 9 years old, i am sure it is out of its youth and wont be too happy with these experiments.
off topic, Satish, i saw your work with your motorbikes and your interest in them. I am really impressed!
harsha.cs1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2009, 18:43   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 573
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudharma View Post
Not only the Sockets and wiring cannot handle the power but also its a heavy load on the Engine ( noticed sudden drop of speed when headl light are switched on) and the battery hardly charges during the night drives and morning starts were difficult.
OT: Have your car checked. The additional load from 130W lamps should not be causing any problems - its only an extra 60 Watts compared to your present set of lamps.

I have done numerous all night drives running 100/90's lamps and a decent ICE setup for 6+ years on my M800 without any problems.
CrackedHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brakes Catch Fire / Brake Bed in procedure / Brake Shudder : Solved Indian1979 Technical Stuff 35 4th October 2013 13:42
After Nano its R8 to catch fire kraft.wagen The International Automotive Scene 24 24th October 2010 05:07
New technology to catch car thieves pjbiju Shifting gears 0 16th July 2008 10:10
Even Ascari KZ1's M5 engine can catch fire... 1Day The International Automotive Scene 0 25th October 2006 20:44


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:04.

Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks