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Old 19th May 2010, 18:45   #46
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Another strategy which OEMs may use for better cold starting in CRDe engines is using different Fuel injection strategy like double pilot injection.

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Old 19th May 2010, 22:34   #47
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...
Better still, keep the vehicle running all night, sleep in the car with all the windows up, and never wake up due to CO poisoning!
Unlikely to work efficiently! Diesel at idle.

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Old 20th May 2010, 10:18   #48
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Actually at the Raid(which happens in October), diesel vehicles are kept started throughout the night.
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Old 20th May 2010, 10:31   #49
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Another problem which can happen is ice crystals in the sedimentar. Lets say it has seprated some water from fuel, but level is not that high that the warning light glows.
When temp goes below freezing, this water can freeze and expand, blocking the filters.

What happened in Arunachal was that the ice crystals were also formed at the strainer that is there at the outlet pipe from the fuel tank. Those ice crystals enmesh with the strainer net like structure and dont melt away soon enough. So after 3-4 days of cold nights, finally the strainer gets almost blocked. The sunlight hours is not enough to completely melt the ice crystal formed on the strainer net structure.

Thus the flow of fuel from the tank itself is restricted. The most wrong thing to do at that time, that I did, was to do a full tank at the petrol pump. Now there was not even room for the diesel to move around inside the tank and thus the flow of diesel through the strainer was restricted even more.

This is for Safari Dicor, dont know if a strainer is there at the outgoing fuel pipe from the tank.


PS: Winter diesel for civilian use is supplied at the one and only pump at Tawang from 1st week of Jan onwards.

Last edited by adc : 20th May 2010 at 10:34.
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Old 20th May 2010, 10:46   #50
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Last year when my Scoprio VLX refused to start at Sarchu, where the night time temp was -5[I have to pour hot water to start], later after reaching Leh I made a complaint to M&M, I again made a complaint of cold start after reaching Nagpur, after few month I saw a notice in the Service Center.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

MODELS AFFECTED – Scorpio with CRDe engine.
PART AFFECTED – Strainer in Fuel Tank.
REASON – Vehicle Not Starting in Winter due to diesel waxing at temperature below 0OC.
ACTION TO BE TAKEN – Change Strainer in Fuel Tank and add Servo DPPD (Diesel Pour Point Depressant) additive,
from IOC in Fuel .
Recommended dosage is 20 ml for 25 litres of Regular HSD.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am hoping that this should not be a problem in the newer refresh model, as this was a know issue and M&M would have changed the Strainer, but we would need to use DPPD.

Need to reconfirm if this is done, else need to get the Strainer replaced, not sure from where I can get DPPD but need this too, starting my journey to J&K and HP on 29th May 2010

Thanks,
Pramod

Last edited by pramods : 20th May 2010 at 10:50.
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Old 20th May 2010, 11:30   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramods View Post
I am hoping that this should not be a problem in the newer refresh model, as this was a know issue and M&M would have changed the Strainer, but we would need to use DPPD.

Need to reconfirm if this is done, else need to get the Strainer replaced, not sure from where I can get DPPD but need this too, starting my journey to J&K and HP on 29th May 2010

Thanks,
Pramod

Pramod, the strainer will be there and more so in a BSIV vehicle. Now the strainer is something like a mosquito net kind of netting. So only the big particles if indeed there are in the tank get caught. This in itself is somewhat unlikely unless someone pours in something while fueling or if the tank is dirty. Also, as said, dont fill up the tank fully. Keep around 3/4 filled up, so that the diesel can play and splash in the tank and thus force itself through the strainer - even if blocked somewhat.

Whatever, the strainer seems to be the Achilles heel for the cold start problems and this is the thing that gets blocked first.

Servo DPDD - never knew such a product was there. Good info!

And best of luck and success in your journey - cold weather is holding on over there and we are end of May!
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Old 20th May 2010, 14:44   #52
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
What does the army do for their vehicles? Aren't they all now diesel?

The army stallion trucks, employ a small electrical heater within the sump to heat up the oil.

similarly a low wattage heater can also be employed in the fuel tank to heat up the diesel.

also the the BS4 trucks use an air preheater in addition to the glow plugs.
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Old 27th November 2011, 12:05   #53
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Default Re: Starting your Cold Car Engine in Snow / Cold Areas

Reason why the diesel vehicle refuses to start in cold/snow area is discussed in detail. Any tips/steps, when the vehicle refuses to start in morning?
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Old 27th November 2011, 13:06   #54
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Default Re: Starting your Cold Car Engine in Snow / Cold Areas

Quote:
Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
The army stallion trucks, employ a small electrical heater within the sump to heat up the oil.

similarly a low wattage heater can also be employed in the fuel tank to heat up the diesel.

also the the BS4 trucks use an air preheater in addition to the glow plugs.
In regions where it gets very cold the following are used
. Radiator heater
. Fuel tank heater
. Sump heater

All the battery powered heaters are low wattage electrical heaters encased in a tube, and are run off the vehicle battery. Between them they consume around 10W of power, so even after 10 hours only 100WH will be consumed. As the sump oil and radiator water are warm, the load on starter battery is less. The only downside is that being low power they will just warm the liquids in moderate cold. For really cold weather you need mains powered heaters of 100W+.

Even if do not have any of the heaters, adding a heater to radiator or sump is relatively easy task. The radiator heater is inserted in place of radiator cap, and the sump heater where the dip stick is. The mains powered pads are just stuck on.

24" Oil Dipstick Heater: Details & Specs at NexTag

Some solutions, but most are mains powered high wattage types. The good thing is that these are pad heaters, hence can be installed around the diesel tank, block and under radiator.

Titan Engine oil pan heaters, filter heaters and battery warmers. Designed for cars, diesel engines, more effective than block heaters, magnetic heaters. Suitable for Volkswagen vw beetle, Audi, Land Rover, Ford, Chrysler, GM,
Wolverine Engine Heaters | Outperforms Engine Block Heater - Cold Starts
Flexible Heater Pads. Eliminate cold starts and engine wear by heating the engine oil.
The EVERWARM car engine heater, plus sump heater and pre-heaters.
Online Store - dieselproducts.com


The best "Jugad" I know of is to put a small immersion heater in the radiator, but it requires mains power.
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Old 27th January 2014, 12:39   #55
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Default Using petrol as anti-freeze additive in a diesel engine

I recently came across some dope on the interweb that petrol can be used as an anti-freeze agent in diesel engines and that adding 5-10% petrol in a diesel tank will eradicate the problem of cold start in sub-freezing temperatures.

There have been arguments that this practice was followed on old-tech diesel burners but the latest CRDi tech doesn't tolerate this and there is a significant chance of fuel rail, injector damage.

Has anyone here had experience with doing this or can shed more light on this?

This is in context of a trip to Spiti Valley coming up in March. Any other guidance/tips would also be appreciated
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Old 27th January 2014, 12:42   #56
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Default Re: Using petrol as anti-freeze additive in a diesel engine

It's more like 1 liter petrol in a tankful of diesel...
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Old 27th January 2014, 12:45   #57
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Default Re: Using petrol as anti-freeze additive in a diesel engine

A tankful can cary from 35L to 92L from car to car. A percentage value would be a better reference point.
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Old 27th January 2014, 13:37   #58
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Default Re: Using petrol as anti-freeze additive in a diesel engine

Quote:
in context of a trip to Spiti Valley coming up in March
You won't need to add anything in Diesel , just ensure your Battery is good , if possible park your car in covered else try to park with engine facing toward any wall to keep off the chilly winds .

I am not sure if we get this kind of fuel in India maybe its standard here as well in upper regions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel
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Old 27th January 2014, 15:35   #59
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Default Re: Using petrol as anti-freeze additive in a diesel engine

No you do not add petrol. you use ATF, or Kerosene. This is what is used in Ladakh in winters. However, in high concentration, it has a detrimental effect on common rails, and even on older engines.

With temperatures dropping to -10, I just put a tarp in front of engine bay, and then idled for 10 minutes before sleeping at night. First crank start in the morning.
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Old 27th January 2014, 17:39   #60
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Default Re: Using petrol as anti-freeze additive in a diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeps View Post

Has anyone here had experience with doing this or can shed more light on this?

This is in context of a trip to Spiti Valley coming up in March. Any other guidance/tips would also be appreciated
Winter grade diesel is quite unlikely in Spiti or in Ladakh. A diesel additive which prevents gellying is the likely cure - SST has some names. I used a brand in the US, when I hired a truck to take me into the high Applachians in the depths of winter- can't recall it's name now. The best option is to keep the engine on idle (albeit secured) in the hotel parking lot - you are guaranteed to move on!
Else, insulate the engine from the elements by wrapping in 3-4, Rs 300/- blankets after idling for an hour.
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