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Old 19th December 2009, 15:46   #1
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Default Are the Oil firms ready for Euro-IV?

Euro IV emission norms may be implemented on April 1, 2010 but the Oil firms are not yet ready to supply the Fuel. On April 1, 2010 these emission norms will be applicable in 13 cities, all other areas will continue with Euro III. The domestic car manufacturers have complained that they will launch the Euro IV spec vehicles on time but the Oil Firms are yet not ready to supply the fuel required to run E IV vehicles.

HPCL Chairman has confirmed that they are ready for E III and E IV Petrol but E IV Diesel will take more time of around one year.

Its a cause of concern for anyone planning to buy a new Diesel car after March.

The news can be read at the link : HindustanTimes ePaper - Article
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Old 19th December 2009, 20:20   #2
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Are they even supplying Euro-III to us, now?
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Old 19th December 2009, 20:27   #3
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Actually problem is not with BS-IV in cities. The problem is that when BS-IV comes into play, rest of the country will go BS-III, and supply of BS-III fuel to all cities is a problem.
Thats why SIAM has asked govt to delay the implementation until oil firms commit to BS-III even in remote parts of the country.

Taking a BS-III engined car out of town, and running it for some time on BS-II fuel is not a big problem,, but if a BS-IV car ran on BS-II fuel, esp diesel, it will kill the emissions filters.
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Old 19th December 2009, 20:56   #4
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Aduterated BS II highway diesel is a sure shot disaster recipe to damage the expensive and sophisticated fuel injection system of modern CRDI Euro IV engines.
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Old 19th December 2009, 21:04   #5
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Can one fill petrol for Euro III cars in Pondy? What kind of fuel is available there?
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Old 19th December 2009, 21:47   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Actually problem is not with BS-IV in cities. The problem is that when BS-IV comes into play, rest of the country will go BS-III, and supply of BS-III fuel to all cities is a problem.
Thats why SIAM has asked govt to delay the implementation until oil firms commit to BS-III even in remote parts of the country.

Taking a BS-III engined car out of town, and running it for some time on BS-II fuel is not a big problem,, but if a BS-IV car ran on BS-II fuel, esp diesel, it will kill the emissions filters.
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Can one fill petrol for Euro III cars in Pondy? What kind of fuel is available there?
The problem is mainly for Diesel rather than Petrol and especially given the fact that Diesel runs 70% of the economy, buying BS-IV cars is going to be a problem if one travels out of town frequently.

BTW any idea how M&M is taking care of this problem as the entire M-Hawk range is BS-IV.
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Old 19th December 2009, 21:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post

Taking a BS-III engined car out of town, and running it for some time on BS-II fuel is not a big problem,, but if a BS-IV car ran on BS-II fuel, esp diesel, it will kill the emissions filters.
Do we have a choice? At present I do not own a Diesel car. But I have friends who take out their diesel car frequently to other states. What kind of alarm or information I can provide them provided this is implemented in April?
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Old 19th December 2009, 22:05   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Euro IV emission norms may be implemented on April 1, 2010 but the Oil firms are not yet ready to supply the Fuel.

Its a cause of concern for anyone planning to buy a new Diesel car after March.
This was an issue I was aware of and talked about in my Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The mHawk engine has BS-III and BS-IV options for the 2WD Scorpios, but only BS-III option in 4WD guise. Now who doesn't want the latest technology under the bonnet? BS-IV equals less pollution. Maybe better mileage. And M&M wasn't offering BS-IV for my 4WD. So I went into petulant-child-who-wants-the-moon mode. I asked everyone I knew. I tried all resources. No one was remotely showing me any ray of hope. BS-IV 4WDs are for the US, they said. Being made, but not for India. But how can that be? An Indian company offering the good stuff to the Americans, but not to us? We definitely deserve better treatment than this...

Until one day, I started off the same rant with a close friend who works in Shell. Are you crazy? You want BS-IV? You'll just be spending money to buy trouble. WHAAAT?

What he had to say opened my eyes and left my mouth agape! BS-IV compliant diesel engines require the use of ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD), with a level of sulphur less than 15 ppm. Despite notifications that BS-IV standards would be implemented in Delhi-NCR and 10 cities by April 2010, there is apparently no way as of now that ULSD can be made available to the customer so soon. For one, the refineries do not produce ULSD. For another, the 15 ppm limit cannot be maintained because of the manner in which the fuel is pumped through the pipelines.

To separate diesel of different batches, a "plug" of kerosene is used inside the pipeline. Now this kerosene plug is supposed to be discarded once one batch of fuel reaches the distributor, but for obvious reasons it is not, and is allowed to mix into the diesel, contaminating it. Kerosene, being a high
sulphur fuel, contributes both towards increasing the sulphur content of
diesel as well as the profits of the distributors! And currently, there is no way the government /oil cos. / refineries can put an end to this practice.

The surplus sulphur plays havoc inside the engine, the sensors, even the BS-IV compliant engine oil that's supposed to be used. Result: Fouled engine, poorer performance, lower mileage than what a BS-III engine can manage.

Therefore, no BS-IV for me. Not any time soon!
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Old 19th December 2009, 22:08   #9
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@SStraveler- I am following your thread regularly, ive read whatever you wrote. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 19th December 2009, 22:12   #10
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A useful link showing the required composition of Fuels to compliance various emission standards.--------
Bharat Stage emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 19th December 2009, 23:03   #11
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A few queries as I never knew that for BS-IV, we will need ULSD. I thought that BS-III diesel will be good enough as earlier I thought that BS-III is a vast improvement over BS-II.

But actually realized that BS-IV is a vast improvement over both, BS-III and BS-II. BS-III was not a big change from BS-II.

1) What if one buys a BS-IV complaint diesel car in cities like Vadodara that are right now available with BS-II diesel ? What fuel they need to put in ?

2) If this is the case, then why manufacturers have put in BS-IV diesel cars in market ?

3) Is this the reason why BS-III Swift works well as compared to Ritz/GP ( apart from changes in ECU ) ? BS-III is not a big change over BS-II, so the engine will not need ULSD, but what for cars like Ritz that are already available with BS-IV in cities like Vadodara that are BS-II ?

Digitonsam from Vadodara has booked BS-IV Ritz. There are already many Ritz with BS-IV diesel engines running around and Vadodara is yet not BS-III, so diesel is just BS-II fuel.
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Old 20th December 2009, 01:31   #12
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Usually there is not much difference, and in many cases no difference in the fuel delivery and injection systems of BS-II, BS-III and BS-IV engines(diesel).
The difference is in exhaust management, and lubrication
for example, BS-IV compliant diesel, if put in an older car, can accelerate wear and tear of engine because of less sulfur content.
And in Tata safari, the E-IV engine has a water cooled EGR and some other changes to emission system
Coming in lubrication you need API-CI4+ engine oils. Mobil had an entire FAQ dedicated to using ULSD in older cars.
Now coming to other way round, if you put LSD in ULSD BS-IV car, no problem for the rail or injection, its trouble for the emissions system which will get damaged.
As for adultration, nothing to do with BS-I,II,III,IV here. If the car is not equipped with a sensitive fuel filter, the common rail is toast.
Most CRDI cars have sophisticated diesel filters, which cost much more than your run of the mill 150rs filter.
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Old 17th January 2010, 11:41   #13
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The country’s oil retailers will begin supplying Euro-IV compliant auto fuel in 13 cities from the targeted April 1. The sale of fuel compliant with Euro-III norms in rest of the country will be done in a phased manner between April 1 and October 1.“We have decided to go for meeting the April-1 deadline for Euro-IV fuels in 13 cities. But for a country like India, it is difficult to make Euro-III fuels available everywhere on day one, so it will be done in phases by October,” Minister of State for Petroleum and Natural Gas Jitin Prasada said today.
The introduction of cleaner auto fuel is aimed at reducing environmentally harmful emission of pollutants like sulphur and benzene.
According to the government’s policy, petrol and diesel meeting Euro-IV standards are to be supplied in 13 cities such as Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata, Bangalore, Hyderabad and Ahmedabad from April 1. The Euro-III grade of fuel is to be supplied across the rest of the country from the same day.
Petroleum Minister Murli Deora today convened a meeting with various stakeholders to review the implementation of the sale of cleaner fuel, as some refineries have been facing slippages in meeting the deadline.
Petroleum Secretary R S Pandey said the ministry would finalise the plan for rolling out Euro-III compliant auto fuel by February 15. Private retailers like Reliance Industries Ltd and Essar Oil also agreed to start selling cleaner auto fuel through their retail outlets from April, Pandey said.
State-owned oil retailers like Indian Oil Corporation, Bharat Petroleum Corporation and Hindustan Petroleum Corporation are investing around Rs 23,500 crore in upgrading their refineries to meet the demand for cleaner fuel.
“Such upgrading requires massive investments and the scope of work is huge. It is not easy to roll out such a programme on a single day,” IOC Chairman Sarthak Behuria said after today’s meeting.

Source:Oil companies to supply Euro-IV fuel in 13 cities from April 1
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Old 17th January 2010, 12:07   #14
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What would the scenario be for petrol BS4 cars that would be filled with BS2 or BS3 petrol on highway trips? Does anybody know what will happen to the engine?
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Old 17th January 2010, 13:57   #15
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Originally Posted by shreeps View Post
What would the scenario be for petrol BS4 cars that would be filled with BS2 or BS3 petrol on highway trips? Does anybody know what will happen to the engine?
Nothing is going to happen as long as it's un-adulterated. But, the pollution level would a little bit high when compared to a BS 4 fuel !
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