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Old 14th September 2008, 15:50   #196
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Very true, no one here will dispute that. Let me make myself clear, I am not against ABS, only that my preference is better tyres>better brakes>ABS in that order or, if it came down to it, I would rather go for a non ABS equipped version and equip it with better footwear and better brakes. This will necessarily reduce braking distance and improve traction on ALL surfaces and under ALL situations compared to stock footwear and brakes, not just selected ones, quite apart from behaving in a completely predictable manner, unlike ABS. I hope I have achieved my objective.
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Old 14th September 2008, 16:05   #197
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is retrofitting ABS possible ( if your car came with ABS on a higher trim level) - for example the Indica turbo DLX had an ABS option, and can Tata A.S.S pull it off ?
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Old 15th September 2008, 05:22   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
is retrofitting ABS possible ( if your car came with ABS on a higher trim level) - for example the Indica turbo DLX had an ABS option, and can Tata A.S.S pull it off ?
Please do a search. This question has been asked umpteen number of times(I wonder why people even think of adding a critical safety feature as an aftermarket accessory ) and the general consensus is that it is not recommended.

If you value your life, and needs ABS, sell your current car and get one with ABS as OE.
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Old 15th September 2008, 06:47   #199
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The ABS function is to prevent the locking of wheels and consequent skidding while breaking. Thus it provides directional stability & controllability while breaking while providing optimum breaking force. The manual equivalent is to pump the breaks while sudden breaking to prevent the skidding by automatically doing this and because of optimum breaking force, the ABS in most conditions reduces the breaking distance, especially in high speed and emergency breaking when it matters most. Having said it, it needs to be emphasized that ABS is not for reducing breaking distance, but for better control and steering during breaking.

When the ABS is activated, you will feel a pulsating effect on the break, just continue breaking and let the ABS work for you. Do not pump the break at this time. This is the main difference one has to learn while driving an ABS fitted vehicle. As a guideline, the distance one has to keep for safe breaking is generally the same as non-ABS vehicles because the difference is only marginal. (In combination with EBD it does reduce breaking distance at high speeds)

One can test the working of ABS also this way by feeling the pulsating breaks. One point to ensure proper working of ABS is that all tyres should of the same size.

There are few situations that ABS might increase the breaking distance (again marginally) like breaking over loose surface like gravel or sand, over steel rod works, manholes, potholes, steps etc. The point to be noted is that ABS does provide for better control in breaking even here and thus making the breaking safer one anyway has to slow down on such roads.

Overall ABS provides safety when you need it most; but one has to still understand that it can not prevent the natural laws of physics!!
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Old 15th September 2008, 08:00   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
Please do a search. This question has been asked umpteen number of times(I wonder why people even think of adding a critical safety feature as an aftermarket accessory ) and the general consensus is that it is not recommended.
Apologies. The ABS indica was not available when I bought mine, and it has been discontinued now that the vista has been launched, hence my query
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Old 15th September 2008, 19:17   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
If you value your life, and needs ABS, sell your current car and get one with ABS as OE.
Given a choice, I'd buy the car with ABS, but if I was satisfied in other ways, I would not sell a
car simply because it didn't have it.

I'd hazard a guess that the greatest life-saving change for many drivers would be to wear the already-provided seat belts!
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Old 15th September 2008, 21:55   #202
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Having a vehicle with ABS is more like having a system to prevent an accident in the first place. But what strikes the most shocking (or is that smart marketing???) is that here in India we do not have ABS as standard fitment. And even if a variant had ABS, it is priced at a very high premium!

Guess manufacturers know that if a person places safety on top priority, (s)he will buy it no matter what pricing. Milking the cow as long as it lasts!!!
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Old 19th September 2008, 07:16   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Given a choice, I'd buy the car with ABS, but if I was satisfied in other ways, I would not sell a
car simply because it didn't have it.

I'd hazard a guess that the greatest life-saving change for many drivers would be to wear the already-provided seat belts!
C'mon Thad. You are reading what you want to, not in the context. The question was retro fitment of ABS to an existing car and the suggestion should be read in that light. I am not asking all non-ABS car owners to change their cars.

ABout seatbelts, it is amazing how people don't realize the value of having such a feature. Why, even in the US, most people buckle up(I am talking of the Indian diaspora) because it is the law and that too only when they are in the front seats, as law does not mandate belts to be worn while on rear seat.

@Happywheels - No, it is not milking. They are just playing to the market. The average Joe out there just looks at the sticker price and decides. He wants the cheapest variant, without any bells and whistles. It is only the discerning customer who will demand safety features like airbags/ABS etc.

If they made ABS standard, I am sure that the premium for ABS will come down, due to mass production. But the Indian market is just not ready for ABS as standard. See the arguments against ABS on t-BHP itself and we are supposed to be better than the average Joe.
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Old 19th September 2008, 09:45   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
...The average Joe out there just looks at the sticker price and decides. He wants the cheapest variant, without any bells and whistles. It is only the discerning customer who will demand safety features like airbags/ABS etc...
Well said Kuttapan! You are right - 'most' of the buyers in our country look at the OTR price. Unfortunately the safety features available are either discussed at the last or not at all. The concentration lies on tyres, looks, A/c, ICE and all those things which will matter the least in times of distress. But this seems to be changing, since we are now (at least) having a variant in most models, with ABS and air bag.

Am sure, slowly but surely, we will have smarter buyers. But it will surely take time and awarness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
...If they made ABS standard, I am sure that the premium for ABS will come down, due to mass production. But the Indian market is just not ready for ABS as standard. See the arguments against ABS on t-BHP itself and we are supposed to be better than the average Joe.
If it is standard, the prices will surely come down, one reason is due to the mass production and the others is that they cannot play with the prices with variants with and without this feature. Hope this happens soon! ***fingers crossed***
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Old 19th September 2008, 10:43   #205
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True - many look at sticker price and do not put much consideration to saftey features like ABS, EBD, airbags etc. But going by the road scene, in reality,these things are becoming increasingly important.

One basic question - Are all the ABS same? I mean are there different variants and grades of ABS?
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Old 20th September 2008, 09:21   #206
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In the US, there used to be a two wheel ABS version, so now most of the car manufacturers stress that they are selling 4 wheel ABS. I only know of a couple of trucks which come with two wheel ABS.

In India, I think all the cars that provide ABS variants, has it on all four wheels.
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Old 30th November 2008, 00:01   #207
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Had my first experience with the need for an abs system today. My car skidded & stopped barely a inch from the bumper in front. All because of his sudden unneeded braking. I was wondering, in a non ABS car, would you actually have the guts/mindset in a sudden braking system to pump the brakes, not slam them?
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Old 30th November 2008, 01:33   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrit7 View Post
Had my first experience with the need for an abs system today. My car skidded & stopped barely a inch from the bumper in front. All because of his sudden unneeded braking. I was wondering, in a non ABS car, would you actually have the guts/mindset in a sudden braking system to pump the brakes, not slam them?
Oh, you would be amazed ! There are a few t-Bhpians who claim to be masters of this dark art, and can pump brakes, whatever the situation may be.

Check this thread to meet a few practitioners - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-abs-cars.html (Can the functionality of ABS be simulated on Non-ABS cars?)
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Old 30th November 2008, 10:20   #209
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Claims. I did get the idea to pump it when it started skidding but my mind just didn't allow me to take my foot off the brake.
I've been wondering. When we panic brake in a non abs vehicle, what exactly happens? do only the rear wheels go into a skid or do all four. Please let me know. Am curious.

Last edited by sukrit7 : 30th November 2008 at 10:27.
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Old 30th November 2008, 13:46   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithun View Post
I think a short course should be provided on how to steer the ABS equipped car on emergency. Otherwise, the utility value of the ABS itself is lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I don't think there is any special technique to steering with ABS.

It gives you a better chance, that's all. And if the 'obstruction' suddenly in the road is soft and human, it gives them a better chance too.
No special course is required. One just needs to learn to drive. The ABS just works on its own and improves handling in emergencies.
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