The ABS discussion thread!!

[solly]

One more very intresting..

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...ake_122701.htm

[pranil]

Antilock brakes are lifesavers when used correctly. The key to effective usage is practice. Practice in a safe, open parking lot. Accelerate to 35 or 40 miles per hour, and brake hard. Knowing how your car responds in an emergency can prevent panic steering.




Yes That's why I have my Getz with ABS- at Rs. 20,000 It is much less than the insurance I pay for myself in a year.

[Technocrat]

Hi all,

I am posting a few snippets from various source on net on ABS, lets discuss what our perception & what ABS actually is

For me it simply means that a vehicle equipped with ABS will not get its tires locked which will most of the time result in longer braking distance.

Here's what How Stuff Works says (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake1.htm)

The theory behind anti-lock brakes is simple. A skidding wheel (where the tire contact patch is sliding relative to the road) has less traction than a non-skidding wheel. If you have been stuck on ice, you know that if your wheels are spinning you have no traction. This is because the contact patch is sliding relative to the ice (see Brakes: How Friction Works for more). By keeping the wheels from skidding while you slow down, anti-lock brakes benefit you in two ways: You'll stop faster, and you'll be able to steer while you stop.

A Few FAQs also from the same site

Should I pump the brake pedal when stopping in slippery conditions?
You absolutely should not pump the brake pedal in a car with ABS. Pumping the brakes is a technique that is sometimes used in slippery conditions to allow the wheels to unlock so that the vehicle stays somewhat straight during a stop. In a car with ABS the wheels should never lock in the first place, so pumping the brakes will just make you take longer to stop.
In an emergency stop in a car with ABS, you should apply the brake pedal firmly and hold it while the ABS does all the work. You will feel a pulsing in the pedal that may be quite violent, but this is normal so don't let off the brake.


Do anti-lock brakes really work?
Anti-lock brakes really do help you stop better. They prevent wheels from locking up and provide the shortest stopping distance on slippery surfaces. But do they really prevent accidents? This is the true measure of the effectiveness of ABS systems.

For more FAQs check http://auto.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake4.htm

Please pour in you comments & geta better understanding of this system

Techno

[msprabhakar]

For all those who think ABS is an essential safety equipment in modern cars and will make a difference, here's a bit of a surprise:

A study, designed, conducted and excellently analysed by U.S. Department of Transport, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration can be downloaded from their website at: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...inalreport.pdf (Caution: This is a 67-page, 1 MB PDF file. Right-mouse click and Save Target As...)

This white paper states (among other things) "...Numerous crash data statistical analyses conducted over the past few years suggest that, for automobiles, the introduction of four-wheel antilock brake systems (ABS) has produced net safety benefits much lower than originally expected. The studies indicate that the apparent increase in single-vehicle crashes involving passenger cars equipped with four-wheel ABS almost completely offsets the safety advantage such vehicles have over their conventionally-braked counterparts..."

The report also goes on to say that "NHTSA’s Light Vehicle ABS Research Program has only been a first step in assessing the anticipated safety benefits from ABS. This program deals solely with trying to learn why the crash data studies did not find the anticipated increase in safety (i.e., reduction in crashes) for ABS-equipped automobiles. The development of countermeasures to resolve any problems discovered is left to future research..."

Hope this piece of evidence at least will put some end to a seemingly endless debate on these forums...

[kashd]

well this info has put me back to square one for deciding on ABS. I have booked ford fiesta tdci and am thinking whether to shell out extra 25K for ABS. On safety point of view 25K is not a big amount when u r spending over 8 lacs but then it is not justifiable just because it is a fad.

[cheatingdeath]

abs has helped me save lives twice ... that s all i can say

[Beemer]

Originally Posted by cheatingdeath

abs has helped me save lives twice ... that s all i can say

I wish i could say the same thing for my car buttt unfort it was not equipped with ABS . However i would still like to say one thing ,If you love yourself ,your family ,friends and all those who go for the long drives with you and above all your car (i hope we all do) please go for the car Equipped with ABS .

[ajmat]

Two instances today for me would have warranted ABS

doing 90 and a truck moves from extreme right to left suddenly

Doing 100 on outer ring road and a group of workers decide to cross suddenly

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by cheatingdeath

abs has helped me save lives twice ... that s all i can say

Can you mentions the instance so that others also benefit

[Ram]

Originally Posted by kashd

well this info has put me back to square one for deciding on ABS. I have booked ford fiesta tdci and am thinking whether to shell out extra 25K for ABS. On safety point of view 25K is not a big amount when u r spending over 8 lacs but then it is not justifiable just because it is a fad.

Friends, may I share with you a viewpoint against ABS?
I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but do 30 years of driving experience in USA, Europe, Australia and India, give me a right to this judgement?

Back in 1999, I had a non-injury fender-bender accident in a Buick Century in California.
It has developed in me a healthy hatred for ABS.

Driving a brand new Buick Century, I smashed up a Toyota Camry which carelessly cut across my lane.
Typical of ABS, the pedal had no feel and ABS was totally incompetent on slightly loose gravel.
ABS lengthened the stopping distance by freeing the wheels, against my action.
I distinctly remember cursing the worthless ABS for allowing the accident to happen.

In a non-ABS car, my action would have locked the wheels and stopped the car in time.

One gets the feeling that ABS is meant only for insensitive newbie drivers who have no feel for the road nor the car's dynamics, totally ignoring pedal feel and leaving the embedded computer software to do the job of stopping the car.
India being full of bad roads, I feel ABS is a recipe for disaster.
There should be an electric defeat-switch to turn off ABS for the experienced driver and for the bad loose surfaced road.

I am also about to go for the Ford Fiesta and I will definitely not buy the ABS option.

[suman]

Originally Posted by ram

Friends, may I share with you a viewpoint against ABS?
I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but do 30 years of driving experience in USA, Europe, Australia and India, give me a right to this judgement?

Back in 1999, I had a non-injury fender-bender accident in a Buick Century in California.
It has developed in me a healthy hatred for ABS.

Driving a brand new Buick Century, I smashed up a Toyota Camry which carelessly cut across my lane.
Typical of ABS, the pedal had no feel and ABS was totally incompetent on slightly loose gravel.
ABS lengthened the stopping distance by freeing the wheels, against my action.
I distinctly remember cursing the worthless ABS for allowing the accident to happen.

In a non-ABS car, my action would have locked the wheels and stopped the car in time.

One gets the feeling that ABS is meant only for insensitive newbie drivers who have no feel for the road nor the car's dynamics, totally ignoring pedal feel and leaving the embedded computer software to do the job of stopping the car.
India being full of bad roads, I feel ABS is a recipe for disaster.
There should be an electric defeat-switch to turn off ABS for the experienced driver and for the bad loose surfaced road.

I am also about to go for the Ford Fiesta and I will definitely not buy the ABS option.

Wow, strong sentiments ram! I think it is well accepted that ABS is not at its best on loose gravel surfaces.

Have a question for you - post the crash in 1999 till date, have you been driving only non-ABS cars by choice?

Not sure if manufacturers the world over would be looking to implement these kind of safety features if they only benefitted newbie drivers with no experience or feel for the car but of course you have a right to your own opinion

[Shan2nu]

RAM - U crashed into the Camry bcoz you didn't use ABS the way it should be done. ABS wasn't designed to reduce stopping distances (even though it does happen in some cases). It was designed to give the driver total steering control under hard braking.

Standing on the brake pedal and hoping the car will stop in time, is not what you wanna do on an ABS equipped car. The idea is to let the computer manage the braking, while you concentrate on finding ways to steer away from the oncoming vehicle/object.

Having ABS doesn't make a car safe, knowing how to use it, does!!!

Shan2nu

[tsk1979]

ABS is bad for gravel and dust. But normal driving is on roads, so ram's argument is not very valid. On a metalled road ABS will give you approx same braking distance with steering control. On gravel it will be a disaster.

[speedsatya]

if it was a a Non ABS car u would have skidded ...like Shan said ...having ABS does not free the driver from his responsibility of being alert ...
it is just an extra feature to help prevent skids and reduce braking distance...

good that you were safe ....

drive safe

[msprabhakar]

Originally Posted by ram

...One gets the feeling that ABS is meant only for insensitive newbie drivers who have no feel for the road nor the car's dynamics, totally ignoring pedal feel and leaving the embedded computer software to do the job of stopping the car.
India being full of bad roads, I feel ABS is a recipe for disaster...

Well said, Ram! ABS, at best, can only make a mediocre driver look ordinary and not be a substitute for learning good driving skills. IMO, vested marketing interests have tried to technically portray ABS as a 'safety' device.

See, for example, a study designed, conducted and excellently analysed by U.S. Department of Transport, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that can be downloaded from http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...inalreport.pdf