Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th September 2015, 13:53   #616
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,736
Thanked: 6,959 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Unknown, unbranded component, DIYed into brake system?

Just Say No!
Thad E Ginathom is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2015, 17:51   #617
Distinguished - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,869 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by devansn View Post
... Anyone has seen this item on ebay? ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Unknown, unbranded component, DIYed into brake system?

Just Say No!
Their description says "Beyond a certain pressure point, it releases the pressure on the calipers, reducing the pad's grip on the disc in turn, and thus allowing the wheel to turn". The electrical equivalent of that is the MOV in spike busters!

If the pressure is let off beyond a certain point, it is likely that it will reduce the braking effectiveness under normal circumstances as well.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2015, 20:44   #618
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,479
Thanked: 2,016 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Has been marketed as "ABS for Bikes" for sometime now. From what I could make out earlier, deliberately made the brakes spongy. Rationale: so that novices don't lock up the front wheel!

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2015, 15:31   #619
AWD
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Drivers seat
Posts: 804
Thanked: 218 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Don't know whether shared earlier;

http://www.shifting-gears.com/2015/0...ory-from-2017/
AWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2015, 16:17   #620
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Kochi
Posts: 67
Thanked: 53 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Hence, even if the ABS motor fails, only the ABS warning lamp will come on and Brake Warning Lamp will not come on (meaning base brakes will continue to function properly). If valve failure occurs, base brake fails.
This is so beautiful to get someone who knows how stuff works and indeed involved in making such things. My interest in the intrinsic working of ABS kicked in only after my car got into this condition (new one, about 3-4 months old).

The ABS discussion thread-wp_20150926_002.jpg

The problem comes on and off, and is diagnosed to something like Valve Relay Malfunction as per their scan tools, and the part ordered would perhaps take a week or more than that to arrive. I am all set out for a long trip to pursue this weekend. This vehicle has been given back to me to drive around, with the assurance that there is indeed no problem except ABS perhaps wouldn't work. After reading your note, I am like . Does the base braking system not work ? As of now, the vehicle stops precisely like ever before.

Last edited by roby.thomas : 28th September 2015 at 16:21. Reason: Spell correction
roby.thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2015, 16:54   #621
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,854
Thanked: 123 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by roby.thomas View Post
...The problem comes on and off, and is diagnosed to something like Valve Relay Malfunction as per their scan tools, .. Does the base braking system not work ? As of now, the vehicle stops precisely like ever before.
Have, and still facing, the same issue, but in my Safari. Need to get the sensors replaced.

Your brakes will work perfectly fine but your ABS will not work, meaning, no pulsation (and corresponding benefits) when the wheels lock out.

Drive safe.
HappyWheels is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2015, 14:59   #622
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dombivli
Posts: 2,619
Thanked: 1,184 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

My Accord has developed a brake problem. The pedal suddenly plunges inside when I step on it. The problem isn't consistent, and is intermittent.

I bled all the four brake points to ensure there is no error trapped inside. The brake pads too are in good condition - anyways the brake pedal issue is not much about the brake pads.

The handbrake has always worked fine, so that means the brake problem has to do with the hydraulics.

In hydraulics, the brake oil is clear green, no contamination and all four lines bled so we can eliminate any air trapped inside. The brake oil levels are not reducing so we can also rule out leakage.

So that leaves two parts: The master cylinder and the ABS. I do not know how to check if the master cylinder has gone bad, but since the brakes do seem to work majority of the time, I would leave out the master cylinder failure for the moment. Also this is a part that does not easily go bad.

That leaves us with the ABS. Since a few weeks the ABS light has been lit up on the dashboard, so there is something wrong with it. I had had a rat inside the bonnet before the ABS light issue came up, so I am speculating that the rat chewed off some wires which caused the ABS light to come up (I could see a chewed wire near the front left wheel fender.

After checking online, it does seem that if the ABS malfunctioned, i.e. if the ABS determined that one of the wheels was locked up, it would ease up on braking on that wheel and this could lose the pedal feel. So I would like to eliminate the possibility of the ABS playing foul with my brakes.

I have been driving non-ABS vehicles all my life, and don't see any imminent threat if the ABS is disabled. Replacing the ABS modulator would cost around 50k as per estimate by Honda, and so I would like to eliminate this possibility by disconnecting or disabling the ABS.

How do I disable it? Do I remove the fuse for the ABS? Any wiring to be removed? Has anyone done this before?
honeybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2015, 15:42   #623
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Kochi
Posts: 67
Thanked: 53 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

I have a question related to ABS module replacement in my car. Post this repair, while on a long trip I observed that the speedometer clocks about 5-10 Km/Hr more than the actual vehicle speed. How do I know this is by comparing with the speed reported by GPS. The GPS and Speedometer agreed each other in my prior car, but I never checked it in this vehicle. So I can't be sure that this is after ABS module replacement. Is there a possibility that the incorrect reading on Speedometer is linked to ABS module replacement ?

I am ok with this defect since, it reports a higher speed while I am actually driving at a lower speed. That's erring on to the safer side.
roby.thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2015, 15:54   #624
BHPian
 
::CMS::'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 568
Thanked: 458 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Speedometer and GPS speeds will always be different as the manufacturer has kept the offset for several reasons, however the GPS speed is the accurate speed except the slight +\- or negligible read errors.
::CMS:: is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2015, 16:54   #625
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,003
Thanked: 5,976 Times
Default Re: The ABS discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
Speedometer and GPS speeds will always be different as the manufacturer has kept the offset for several reasons, however the GPS speed is the accurate speed except the slight +\- or negligible read errors.
to add, GPS speeds are very accurate, but become unreliable during acceleration and braking. So you need to drive at a steady speed for an accurate reading.

Typical GPS speed accuracy can be better then 0.5km/h, depending a little bit on circumstances.

Where on most odometers the in-accuracy is essential a percentage of the reading, on a GPS speed it is an absolute number. So the faster you go the smaller impact it has.

Another anorak fact: GPS speeds go up to 999MPH. You want to go faster than that, you will require a different kind of speed measurements.

Something to do with military specfications from the origins of GPS I believe,

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2016, 11:22   #626
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 694
Thanked: 699 Times
Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post

. ABS has also convinced drivers that the car will stop faster in any situation, with the result that where as old timers used to monitor the traffic and road condition to assess stopping distance, people are now oblivious to it assuming that ABS will stop the car instantaneously
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

The Wiki puts things in a slightly different note. Please go through it.
Mad Max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2016, 11:26   #627
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Banaglore
Posts: 249
Thanked: 262 Times
Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Isnt it the contrary? If it increased the distance why would any manufacturer promote it in the first place? We are basically saying that okay so your car stops in X meters without ABS and now with our new revolutionary ABS technology your car will stop in X+Y meters (instead of X-Y meters). Sorry but doesnt make sense to me.
ABS increases braking distance and can reduce control in certain road conditions like rutted /gravelly/mud roads etc.
JediKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2016, 11:31   #628
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,110
Thanked: 984 Times
Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

The Wiki puts things in a slightly different note. Please go through it.
ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and slippery surfaces; however, on loose gravel or snow-covered surfaces, ABS can significantly increase braking distance, although still improving vehicle control.[2][3][4]

We learnt to "Pump" the brakes for better efficiency. More relevant we learnt to drive keeping in mind the total environment around us. Checking the road conditions ahead, anticipating erratic driver behavior. What technology has done is to give us a false sense of safety relying on technology, and ignoring basic safe driving norms.

What I think OP wanted to express is that all the technology has made us forget the basics; thus dumbing us; and relying totally on technology, which if it fails may be disastrous in emergencies.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2016, 21:22   #629
BHPian
 
studentonwheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 45
Thanked: 46 Times
Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Isnt it the contrary? If it increased the distance why would any manufacturer promote it in the first place? We are basically saying that okay so your car stops in X meters without ABS and now with our new revolutionary ABS technology your car will stop in X+Y meters (instead of X-Y meters). Sorry but doesnt make sense to me.
Actually, ABS works by braking your tires in a release-and-clamp pattern so that your wheels don't lock. Most people who never drove on snow or ice wont know this. It actually feels like your brakes clamp then release, then clamp again. This is done solely to prevent wheels from locking that can send your car into a spin. I've seen that happen a lot here in Iowa on older cars without ABS. Then again, there's always the guy who thinks his car can do it all and rear ends someone. Don't get me wrong, my car has ABS too and I'm indeed grateful for it when we get 6 inches of snow. But I know how it works, so I ensure that I don't abuse it. And I still look either side and over my shoulder when I reverse despite having a backup cam. I guess that's been my point all along:Its great to own a tech loaded car but don't forget the basics.
studentonwheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2016, 09:11   #630
BHPian
 
MaheshY1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Dharuhera
Posts: 109
Thanked: 118 Times
Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by studentonwheels View Post
...ABS in fact increases your stopping distance...
That can't be true. Friction stops cars. Skidding on snow with wheels locked means lesser friction.

No matter what the condition, snow, gravel, mud, or sand, ABS will always bring the car back to a stop faster and more importantly, in a straight line.

Shoot me if I'm wrong.

About the tech side, here's a post about self driving cars: https://www.gaadi.com/car-feature-st...f-self-driving

Last edited by MaheshY1 : 30th September 2016 at 09:17.
MaheshY1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The DATA Card and USB Modem discussion thread (Reliance/Airtel/Tata) sk456 Gadgets, Computers & Software 720 11th December 2015 09:00
Windows Vista Discussion Thread normally_crazy Gadgets, Computers & Software 663 2nd December 2014 02:18
Chennai General Discussion Thread slipstream The Team-BHP Meet Section 11 9th August 2006 15:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:06.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks