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Old 27th December 2009, 10:00   #1
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Default Diesel leakage from Safari

Hi Guys,

I have a TCIC Safari. Yesterday morning when I started the car fuel was leaking from the side of the pump. When I took the car to Concorde motors, there was no leakage at all. Again today morning when I started the car, there is leakage. Concorde Motors does not have any idea, but thinks that pump overhaul might solve the problem. Please suggest.

I would like to avoid expensive pump overhaul if the problem is not related to pump malfunction, as otherwise it would have leaked every time, not only in the morning. I also do not know if it is safe to drive the car.

I recently drove from Kolkata to Bangalore, but there was no problem.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by sumannandy : 27th December 2009 at 10:05.
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Old 28th December 2009, 00:01   #2
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Whats the condition of pickup and acceleration, is the drive smooth?? are you experiencing any jerks?
IF normal fuel pump is fine.

check for leaks from pipes etc.
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Old 28th December 2009, 05:46   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
Whats the condition of pickup and acceleration, is the drive smooth?? are you experiencing any jerks?
IF normal fuel pump is fine.

check for leaks from pipes etc.
Everything is fine, there is no problem with pickup or acceleration. I do not feel any jerks either while driving. The drive is smooth too. In fact if you do not notice the leakage you wouldn't know there is any problem.

The leakage is from the return line. Concorde is suggesting F.I.P. overhaul. According to them there is an wire inside with some rubber gaskete which could be gone. Any overhaul would cost me a minimum of 4-5k. Plus they already told that thay would add a markup of 20%+ to what the Bosch guys charge as 'handling' charges. I think they are trying to go the easy route instead of diagnosing and overcharging me.


Please suggest. Also, if you know any good Bosch service center, please let me know.

Thanks.

Last edited by sumannandy : 28th December 2009 at 05:48.
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Old 28th December 2009, 09:23   #4
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Hi, do you see any of the 4 rubber return lines from the FIP to be moist? Also good if you could post a snapshot of the same. Do you see any issue while starting the engine too, ie. engine takes longer to crank?
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Old 28th December 2009, 09:30   #5
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if there is leakage you have to go for pump overhauling where they change the seals and recaliberate the pump local costs are 1500 plus labor charge of 400for removal and fitting.even with the leaks the acceleration will not be affected at this stage fe will drop for obvious reasons.
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Old 28th December 2009, 10:37   #6
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As sierrakamat suggested, even if its pump why goto a dealer. Get it done by independent experts.
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Old 29th December 2009, 06:49   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
Hi, do you see any of the 4 rubber return lines from the FIP to be moist? Also good if you could post a snapshot of the same. Do you see any issue while starting the engine too, ie. engine takes longer to crank?
There is no issue with the engine starting. the junction where the rubber lines connect to th epump is moist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrakamat View Post
if there is leakage you have to go for pump overhauling where they change the seals and recaliberate the pump local costs are 1500 plus labor charge of 400for removal and fitting.even with the leaks the acceleration will not be affected at this stage fe will drop for obvious reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
As sierrakamat suggested, even if its pump why goto a dealer. Get it done by independent experts.
I am not very familiar with Bangalore. Can you please suggest a good place? I kept the car at Concorde Motors and I feel that they are definitely trying to overcharge me. I asked them not to do anything unless I approve the job as I was waiting for some response from here. So I could take the car from them tomorrow and go to the place you suggest.
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Old 29th December 2009, 09:56   #8
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sumannandy before you start try opening the bonnet and ask someone else to start. If the diesel leaks through some lever or joint of the pump then you will have to get it opened up. Depending on what pump this has, I'm not sure if both Lucas CAV and BOSCH were fitted, you can try aproaching a authorised dealer for anyone of these two companies. That's if you're not keen to get it done where you have given the scorpio at present.
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Old 29th December 2009, 10:06   #9
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Bosch authorized shops should be able to help you with pump, unfortunately i also dont have any contacts. Maybe others can help?
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Old 30th December 2009, 19:17   #10
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Now here is the update for my Safari.

I got the contact numbers of the Bosch service centers from internet. However, they do not service the pumps there. They actually take the pump to a pump service center.

Although I was not sure about their locations (I am not very familiar with Bangalore), I decided to give it a try.

Meanwhile, Concorde Motors sent the pump for servicing although I asked them not to touch anything without my approval. The service center also changed the wiring. Today morning they informed that some calibration motor I think also needs to be replaced.

So I am forced to pay the 20% extra they will be charging. I had a discussion with them and thay might reduce the mark up.

So what could have been done in 3-4k, will cost me approximately 7k. Although I am getting warranty, I am not sure if that is worth it.

Now the other question is why it happened. The car is 9 years old and has done about 77k+. I think fuel pump needs work only after 1 lakh kms.

I have been using premium fuel for the past 3-4 years. Is that the reason of failure? Tata Motors recommends Normal fuel with System-D, I think that should be identical to premium fuels anyway.

Or, is it because of the 'fuel pump servicing' Tata Motors dealers did for me. They actually recommended that running some liquid through the fuel system will clean the fuel system and increase the life of the pump.
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Old 30th December 2009, 19:51   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumannandy View Post
Now here is the update for my Safari.




So I am forced to pay the 20% extra they will be charging. I had a discussion with them and thay might reduce the mark up.

So what could have been done in 3-4k, will cost me approximately 7k. Although I am getting warranty, I am not sure if that is worth it.
Its worth it as if the problem recurrs after their replacement/repair they are bound to fix it for free.They did it for me,though some other issue.
Which Concorde are you talking about? The mysore road one or the Hosur road one?
Concorde is a subsidiary of Tata motors and hence they are very particular about feedback and hence provide one of the best customer interfaces as far as a A.S.S is concerned.They freak out if you go ahead and give a negetive feedback after service when Tata motors pune, give you a call.

Quote:
Now the other question is why it happened. The car is 9 years old and has done about 77k+. I think fuel pump needs work only after 1 lakh kms.
The info I got from Concorde is that fuel pump issues should not come before 150k for any of the safari models.


Quote:
I have been using premium fuel for the past 3-4 years. Is that the reason of failure? Tata Motors recommends Normal fuel with System-D, I think that should be identical to premium fuels anyway.
Yes.
Quote:
Or, is it because of the 'fuel pump servicing' Tata Motors dealers did for me. They actually recommended that running some liquid through the fuel system will clean the fuel system and increase the life of the pump.
Can you elaborate?When was this?



Edit: In case you want any help as I understand you are new to bangalore , then I can accompany you during the weekend to get this issue sorted.Let me know in case any assistance is required.

Last edited by Alter_Ego : 30th December 2009 at 19:53.
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Old 30th December 2009, 20:01   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumannandy View Post
Now the other question is why it happened. The car is 9 years old and has done about 77k+. I think fuel pump needs work only after 1 lakh kms.

I have been using premium fuel for the past 3-4 years. Is that the reason of failure? Tata Motors recommends Normal fuel with System-D, I think that should be identical to premium fuels anyway.

Or, is it because of the 'fuel pump servicing' Tata Motors dealers did for me. They actually recommended that running some liquid through the fuel system will clean the fuel system and increase the life of the pump.
There is no answer to suspicion, it could be anything even bad fuel or water in fuel. Ask them on what was actually done for the repairs and that could perhaps give a clue.
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Old 31st December 2009, 06:00   #13
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There is no 'wire with a rubber gasket' that can leak diesel. Quite likely the return line bolt-on pipe is leaking at the seat, and this condition corrects itself when the engine bay is warm/hot.

Call the board number of Bosch Bangalore and ask for the Diesel Pump Customer Service department. They will be able to tell you where to take the vehicle to for servicing the pump. Alternately, you can go to the Mission Road office of Bosch (on the left just before the entry to the flyover) and ask them.
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Old 31st December 2009, 07:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter_Ego View Post
Its worth it as if the problem recurrs after their replacement/repair they are bound to fix it for free.They did it for me,though some other issue.
Which Concorde are you talking about? The mysore road one or the Hosur road one?
Concorde is a subsidiary of Tata motors and hence they are very particular about feedback and hence provide one of the best customer interfaces as far as a A.S.S is concerned.They freak out if you go ahead and give a negetive feedback after service when Tata motors pune, give you a call.

The info I got from Concorde is that fuel pump issues should not come before 150k for any of the safari models.


Yes.
Can you elaborate?When was this?



Edit: In case you want any help as I understand you are new to bangalore , then I can accompany you during the weekend to get this issue sorted.Let me know in case any assistance is required.
Thank you. I will let you know if I need any assistance.

What R.D.Motors in Kolkata did was some kind of soft decarbonization. They claimed that the process would clean the injectors etc. and increase the life of the pump. Is that the reason.
This was in May this year.

I gave the car to Concorde in Hosur road. I really think that their service level has degraded. I was in Bangalore for couple of months in 2004-2005 and I used to service my car in Concorde. But the service level was much better. This time I did not even get an update on what was going on with the car and I had to call multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
There is no answer to suspicion, it could be anything even bad fuel or water in fuel. Ask them on what was actually done for the repairs and that could perhaps give a clue.
During my recent drive to Bangalore, we tried to fill from COCO as much as possible. So it may be either the premium fuel, or the service.

They changed the relay and the wirirng. They are also changing a roller. Any clue?
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Old 31st December 2009, 16:23   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumannandy View Post
Thank you. I will let you know if I need any assistance.

I gave the car to Concorde in Hosur road. I really think that their service level has degraded. I was in Bangalore for couple of months in 2004-2005 and I used to service my car in Concorde. But the service level was much better. This time I did not even get an update on what was going on with the car and I had to call multiple times.

During my recent drive to Bangalore, we tried to fill from COCO as much as possible. So it may be either the premium fuel, or the service.
the skill level of engineers at Concorde has gone down and regarding the service levels it depends on which service adviser got assigned to you.
The last time I gave my safari for some electrical modifications, the service guy would call me after every couple of hours to update of the work in progress.I have got the other kind of advisers too who think that they are doing a favor by servicing my vehicle and never bother to call up and inform.

Amd regarding the fuel , the issue should not be due to premium fuel.
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