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Old 18th January 2010, 22:50   #31
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My car is facing a weird electrical problem.

Whenever i switch on the right turn indicator / blinker and press the brake pedal simultaneously the indicator / blinker stops working // after releasing the pedal it starts working. But it doesn't occur always (occurs 8 out of 10 times) - gets irritating while driving.

it happens with or without Head Lamps & Front Fog lamps being switched on.

i checked the fuse box - everything looks OK to me. did a small R&D and tried the same with the ignition in on position (without cranking) - now the left hand side indicator / blinker also behaves in the same manner - not working with the brake pedal pressed.

any pointers where should i look into?

can the following lead to the above problem?:

1. weak battery
2. alternator

the negative terminal has some oxidization which i have brushed off.

looking forward to hear from you guys. posting it here since if the source is weak battery - then i gotto buy a new one soon.

PS: current battery is 50DIN Exide.

Last edited by planet_rocker : 18th January 2010 at 22:51.
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Old 19th January 2010, 11:12   #32
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Thoroughly clean the oxidation with water. If you can, try with a new/ fully charged battery. I think it is an issue with the battery, especially since the problem increases when the engine is not cranked. braking (atleast in modern cars) does take power from the battery when the engine is not cranked and so do the indicators.

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Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
My car is facing a weird electrical problem.

Whenever i switch on the right turn indicator / blinker and press the brake pedal simultaneously the indicator / blinker stops working // after releasing the pedal it starts working. But it doesn't occur always (occurs 8 out of 10 times) - gets irritating while driving.

it happens with or without Head Lamps & Front Fog lamps being switched on.

i checked the fuse box - everything looks OK to me. did a small R&D and tried the same with the ignition in on position (without cranking) - now the left hand side indicator / blinker also behaves in the same manner - not working with the brake pedal pressed.

any pointers where should i look into?

can the following lead to the above problem?:

1. weak battery
2. alternator

the negative terminal has some oxidization which i have brushed off.

looking forward to hear from you guys. posting it here since if the source is weak battery - then i gotto buy a new one soon.

PS: current battery is 50DIN Exide.
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Old 19th January 2010, 11:51   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harsha.cs1 View Post
Thoroughly clean the oxidation with water. If you can, try with a new/ fully charged battery. I think it is an issue with the battery, especially since the problem increases when the engine is not cranked. braking (atleast in modern cars) does take power from the battery when the engine is not cranked and so do the indicators.
i am very scared of electrical shocks - i generally use a tooth brush to clean the oxidizations.

also the cabin clock dims when brake / indicators are on (The clock in Palio dims automatically when head lights are on - feature) but it further dims with brake / indicators. Similarly clock/HL/instrument cluster lights dim while operating P'windows.

Brake lights take power from the Battery - Braking mechanism from the engine. - i am sure you were referring to the braking mechanism

The problem occurs randomly at a point of time even when the car is stationary. Don't think there is any problem with earthing since if it was an earthing problem all lights in the rear lamp cluster will be affected...

the battery is also leaking a lot - top cover remains wet.

The battery in our Padmini / Getz (both Exide maintainance free ones) remains clean 'n clear.

Last edited by planet_rocker : 19th January 2010 at 11:53.
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Old 19th January 2010, 12:30   #34
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Update!

I finally picked the battery, yes its "Exide" 55din. costed me 5400 bucks after hard bargain:(

I learnt from the Fiat guys(Bangalore) that Exide fits well in Fiat though am not sure about it.

lastly in idling without any load, the charge is about 13.4. now is this normal or the charging is low? in that case my alternator has some issues?

I spoke to Fiat(concorde) they told me that if we check in analyser we will be shown the right value, that is about 13.9 to 14...
and also that 1.6 that charging is lower then other cars...

So electrical experts please show me the light
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Old 19th January 2010, 12:56   #35
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@ lohithrao - take a look at this thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...g-14-what.html (Battery Not charging light on - Alternator giving 14+ !! What is it ?)

thread was not properly updated - but IIRC the problem was traced to a faulty fuse relay (Radiator Fan) which was causing charge leakage.

But anyways - 13.9-14 is OK.

Last edited by planet_rocker : 19th January 2010 at 13:03.
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Old 19th January 2010, 21:45   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
Update!

I finally picked the battery, yes its "Exide" 55din. costed me 5400 bucks after hard bargain:(

I learnt from the Fiat guys(Bangalore) that Exide fits well in Fiat though am not sure about it.

lastly in idling without any load, the charge is about 13.4. now is this normal or the charging is low? in that case my alternator has some issues?

I spoke to Fiat(concorde) they told me that if we check in analyser we will be shown the right value, that is about 13.9 to 14...
and also that 1.6 that charging is lower then other cars...

So electrical experts please show me the light
The Fiat Palio 1.6 takes a DIN50 or DIN55 (50 or 55 AH). Either one will fit. My dad's car has been using a Standard Furukawa (SF Sonic DIN50) - another Exide brand. DIN batteries (European/German specs) are always more expensive than standard JIS spec batteries used in Jap cars.

The alternator voltage at engine idle (~800 RPM) with all electrical accessories including hi and lo beams switched ON should be about 13.5-14 volts and zero load voltage range between 13.8 and 14.4v.

Cheers!
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Old 19th January 2010, 21:55   #37
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@planetrocker: I had a very similar same problem in my GTX: the indicators would not work when the brake pedal was depressed. This was traced to a wiring fault near the right-rear tail-lamp cluster. No parts were replaced, and I was not changed anything by the Service Center.

Last edited by vipul_singh : 19th January 2010 at 21:57.
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Old 20th January 2010, 09:57   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
@planetrocker: I had a very similar same problem in my GTX: the indicators would not work when the brake pedal was depressed. This was traced to a wiring fault near the right-rear tail-lamp cluster. No parts were replaced, and I was not changed anything by the Service Center.
Hey i'm having exactly the same problem on my adventure. My right indicator does not work when i depress the brake. THis happens mostly in night. I think its got something to do with moisture. What did you do? How did they find out the source of the problem. I have been trying to solve it with the a.s.s here but they are unable to figure out what is wrong.
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Old 20th January 2010, 11:42   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Hey i'm having exactly the same problem on my adventure. My right indicator does not work when i depress the brake. THis happens mostly in night. I think its got something to do with moisture. What did you do? How did they find out the source of the problem. I have been trying to solve it with the a.s.s here but they are unable to figure out what is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
@planetrocker: I had a very similar same problem in my GTX: the indicators would not work when the brake pedal was depressed. This was traced to a wiring fault near the right-rear tail-lamp cluster. No parts were replaced, and I was not changed anything by the Service Center.
Problem is prominent at night when the head lamps are on.

here is what i noticed with brake pressed:

1. RHS indicator on - blinks // often doesn't
2. RHS indicator on + switch on side & fog lamps - blinks abruptly // often doesn't
3. RHS indicator on + switch on side & fog lamps + HL - often doesn't

LHS works fine. i will get it checked properly - the RHS indicator was previously worked upon because of a poor contact at the socket in the RHS rear cluster. The lumen of blinks was poor which was corrected by FASS.

problem occurs with Reverse lights + RHS Indicator (without brake pressed)

Last edited by planet_rocker : 20th January 2010 at 11:43.
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Old 20th January 2010, 13:07   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
problem occurs with Reverse lights + RHS Indicator (without brake pressed)
DITTO. THis is the exact behaviour that my adventure is showing. Please do let me know if you find a solution. I have been telling this to the A.S.S guys for some time now. But they dont seem to have a clue as to where to look.

HOPE I'm not taking the thread Do we need to start a new thread?
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Old 20th January 2010, 14:44   #41
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Default Off-topic: Indicator Not Working with Brake Pressed - Palio

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
DITTO. THis is the exact behaviour that my adventure is showing. Please do let me know if you find a solution. I have been telling this to the A.S.S guys for some time now. But they dont seem to have a clue as to where to look.
First of all - Thanks to Vipul

i went out and tried the following:

1. open boot to access the RHS tail lamp cluster
2. remove the black mat thingy to access the socket/plug (in the GTX/Sports/Stile` it sits just below the rear OE speaker).
3. individually push the wires in each socket (each for parking / brake / indicator / reverse / earthing)
4. Start the car and do the following:

with brake pressed
:
  • RHS indicator on
  • RHS indicator on + switch on side & fog lamps
  • RHS indicator on + switch on side & fog lamps + HL
without brake pressed
  • RHS Indicator on + Reverse gear
the indicator (RHS) should work with the above combination. i drove the car over rough roads to see if it occurs again (occasionally checking with combination - parking + fog lamp + head lamp //& reverse for a check)

I still think this is a temporary solution.

@ Gemi - try it and let me know if it works.

sorry everyone for going off-topic.

Last edited by planet_rocker : 20th January 2010 at 14:51.
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Old 20th January 2010, 15:17   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
Brake lights take power from the Battery - Braking mechanism from the engine. - i am sure you were referring to the braking mechanism
Hey planet rocker, firstly congrats on having your trouble largely sorted out.

In my Accent, the brakes are not effective with the ignition off. Hence, they require power to operate. When the engine is on (and therefore the alternator as well) the brake mechanism draws power from the same; however, when the engine is off and only the ignition is on, the mechanism draws power from the battery. This is my understanding, people do confirm.
Cheers,
Harsha
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Old 25th January 2010, 11:22   #43
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SOme updates from my side:

Fixed the charging problem, it was because of the "Alternator regulator" issue. got it replaced for 2300 including labor charges. i guess would have saved up about 20bucks if i had got it done by the bosch dealer. but i went to a non bosch dealer.

but if i had got it done at ***, it would have costed lot more!

Now the charging is btw 14-14.5.

Any updates from Khanbhai and Harsha? did you guys get the Amaron(55din)?
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Old 25th January 2010, 17:49   #44
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where is the alternator regulator located? how do they check the charge? Volt meter?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 25th January 2010, 18:13   #45
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P_r, both regulator and the rectifier are both found inside the alternator unit. so it has to be opened.

Have attached the picture of the "regulator"

before dismantling the unit, they checked in a sophisticated device. i guess its a volt meter. where they checked the charging with different load levels...

It takes about 20-30mins to check and replace the regulator.

but removing and fixing the alternator is the time consuming part. and also they charge 560bucks for this effort
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