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Old 20th January 2010, 09:01   #46
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b. bad Service Support In the NCR,you have 10 ASC to go to: Some good, some so-so, some moronic. By and large, regular parts like filters etc were a problem only in the first three-four months, not since then. I will leave others (esp Tortoise-n-Hare) to comment on the other parts of the country. Yes, finding somebody to do trouble shooting with a Fiat can be painful and I wonder what I shall do if Elegant Cars were to close down.
There are 2 Tata ASCs in my city. Abhishek Motors, from whom I purchased my car, had no previous experience with Fiats at that time (their dealership became Tata-Fiat just a month before). The other, Ghosh Brothers, was also just about a year into Tata-Fiat dealership at that time. Since Assam is a Tata stronghold, both ASCs put maximum effort on service of Tata vehicles. Palios, especially Stiles, are so few in number here that the mechanics have no chance to get acquainted with the nuances of those vehicles. I had no problem with the behaviour and attention of the TASC of Abhishek motors but they too erred by not keeping stock of essential spares needed in one of the routine services. I think I have to live with the parts-not-readily-available issue throughout the life of the car. The silver lining is that Fiat India seems to able supply parts of the Stile, at least till now.

I agree with architect in all the points he made.

Last edited by tortoiseNhare : 20th January 2010 at 09:03.
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Old 20th January 2010, 09:45   #47
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Continuing from Post 30...

There is another incident of my friends (one of the 5 FIATs mentioned earlier that were bought on my recommendation) Stile 1.1 stalling every time he travelled for more than around 80km at a stretch. This was identified as a fuel pump issue too and was changed under warranty. This car had done just around 8000km at that time!!!

Probably we could leave that as a one off incident. But for an Car owner it gives you a bitter taste somewhere down there especially when its a car that you bought with your heart. Not listening to majority of family/peers.

Coming back to the above two incidents with the MJD. I am not saying that the MJD is the worst car on road with more problems than any other car in the category. Its just about how FIAT dealt with the customers. Its about the hardships they had to go through just because they chose to believe in a car/brand that was close to breathing its last breath at that time. Its about what their reality check after believing that the TATA-FIAT JV would change things to their favour.

In the coming posts i will move towards other cars. Would surely try to post pictures / scans for those who want proof that i am not making up a story since my uncles dads friends daughter was treated badly by FIAT!! Just kidding

MODS: This thread is not about one particular MJD car. Its about how FIAT has dealt with the issues customers have faced. It only happens that i have chosen two MJDs to start with. Please see the posts by me on this thread which continues the story. The current title will not do justice to the thread. If you think the title put by me "Is MJD just the last nail in FIAT India'c Coffin" is too 'inflammatory'. Kindly change it to "Excerpts on Customers Experiences after the FIAT-TATA JV?". Please . Please change this title. It will not do justice to the thread.


to be continued.....

Last edited by gemithomas : 20th January 2010 at 09:51.
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:15   #48
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Hi - Please read this thread. Sometimes the faulty diagnosis is that the fuel pump or the motor for the pump has gone bad. Its not always true.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...fuel-pump.html (Help Needed on Fiat Siena 1.6 Fuel Pump)

One of the reasons, why fuel pumps/motors fail is , if you do not change fuel filters as per schedule, and the quality of fuel is bad, the pump will have to work harder to pump the same quantity of fuel.
Also driving on reserve causes stresses to the fuel pump/motor. Imagine pumping your building water to the overhead tank when the level of water is low, it will cause the motor to overheat and fuse out (if it does not have thermal protection).
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:34   #49
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@Gemi, I spoke to Sharmaji of Elegant Cars regarding the fuel pump issues. In the absence of complete information, this is what he advised for yoru friend.

1. The fuel pump located in the tank is the only "fuel pump". The other one is the high-pressure pump for the CRDI system. The one in the tank (which costs about Rs 5,000/-) is more likely to be affected by bad quality diesel because the CRDI pump is protected (somewhat) by the diesel filter which comes before it in the fuel supply line.

2. A hook-up on the examiner should diagnose problems with either of the pumps in some cases. I hope that has been done.

3. Engine vibrating too much at start up could indicate fuel injector / CRDI system issues. Can be checked with point no 2 above to a certain extent.

4. The smoke coming out will be an indicator of the quality of fuel as well as the health of the whole pump / injection system.

5. The best way to check if the fuel pump (hoping its the one in the tank that we're talking about) is to replace it with another and see if the problems recur.

With the lack of information, this is what he could suggest. Basically you need a thorough check up both on examiner and otherwise with some "elimination" thrown in.

Send me a PM with more info in case you want me to dig further.
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:39   #50
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One of the reasons, why fuel pumps/motors fail is , if you do not change fuel filters as per schedule, and the quality of fuel is bad, the pump will have to work harder to pump the same quantity of fuel.
Also driving on reserve causes stresses to the fuel pump/motor. Imagine pumping your building water to the overhead tank when the level of water is low, it will cause the motor to overheat and fuse out (if it does not have thermal protection).[/quote]

Very nicely explained, I believe it is one of the reasons for fuel pump failure/malfunctioning, irrespective of the car maker or the brand.
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:47   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
@Gemi, I spoke to Sharmaji of Elegant Cars regarding the fuel pump issues. In the absence of complete information, this is what he advised for yoru friend.

1. The fuel pump located in the tank is the only "fuel pump". The other one is the high-pressure pump for the CRDI system. The one in the tank (which costs about Rs 5,000/-) is more likely to be affected by bad quality diesel because the CRDI pump is protected (somewhat) by the diesel filter which comes before it in the fuel supply line.

2. A hook-up on the examiner should diagnose problems with either of the pumps in some cases. I hope that has been done.

3. Engine vibrating too much at start up could indicate fuel injector / CRDI system issues. Can be checked with point no 2 above to a certain extent.

4. The smoke coming out will be an indicator of the quality of fuel as well as the health of the whole pump / injection system.

5. The best way to check if the fuel pump (hoping its the one in the tank that we're talking about) is to replace it with another and see if the problems recur.

With the lack of information, this is what he could suggest. Basically you need a thorough check up both on examiner and otherwise with some "elimination" thrown in.

Send me a PM with more info in case you want me to dig further.
Thanks a lot for your help. The A.S.S guys here had mentioned to us that it must be the pump that comes outside the tank. That was said to me when i asked him how can a pump give way this fast. Probably he just wanted to give me some answer. Not sure if it was a genuine knowledge based answer. They said they part is available and will change part and return car in evening. They kept the car till evening and then called my friend telling him that the part was not available.

We are assuming that they have checked the car on the analyser and identified the problem part.

I spoke to my friend just now. They have just mentioned fuel pump. Even he is not sure which exact part. Hope we are not in for a shock when the fuel pump comes and they realize that that was not the problem.

Thanks for the help.

Last edited by gemithomas : 20th January 2010 at 10:49.
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Old 20th January 2010, 11:47   #52
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I hope it is the cheaper fuel pump.

I find it hard to believe that the high pressure injection pump should give away so soon.
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Old 20th January 2010, 12:47   #53
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Hmm, don't know how I missed this thread.

I bought my Palio MJD in Jun, 08 and it has since covered about 18K km. I have regularly serviced it and have maintained it well. I have had several experiences so far which I would like to enumerate.

Pros:
1. A good driveable car and relatively sturdy compared to others in the same category.
2. Very good cruiser on the highways and stays strong on the road with a good mileage to boot. (I get around 17kmpl in city).
3. Good value for money (premium) hatchback.
4. Except for some minor rattles near the rear door its noise free. The engine sound is little louder but not too noticeable.

Cons (in order of importance):
1. A.S.S has to improve a lot to put it mildly.
2. Parts availability is a major headache, the norm is- usually it is not available unless it is a trivial thing.
3. Reliability issues- cannot be taken for granted.

While the cons are only few they are serious enough to deter any car buyer.

Issues faced in my car so far:
1. The first part to be replaced under warranty was the ignition key switch, they billed me and later refunded. I had to wait for 1 month ( I was able to use the car) to get replacement and this happened in the second month of buying.
2. The second was, the starter motor conked off after an year and was again replaced under warranty. This time my car was lying with the A.S.S for 3 weeks and was the most frustrating.
3. Some minor clutch work.

The blower has come on in car only a couple of times so far and both times it created a big cloud of dust around. But, yes it is embarrassing when it happens.

On the whole I would the car has a good driving experience but if you take the overall ownership experience I would hesitate to give it a satisfactory rating. I usually make it a point to mention this when someone asks for feedback.

To people downplaying the Fiat problems, its not how many good experiences you hear but how many bad experiences there are which matters. It's the ratio off bad/good and fiat suffers in this equation.

Last edited by zaks : 20th January 2010 at 12:49.
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Old 20th January 2010, 13:48   #54
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Continuing from Post 47....

MODS.THanks for the Change in Title.

We have owned a UNO in the Pre-TATA-FIAT JV Era. We used to hate the car for the small issues it came back every time it went for service. Old father and young me did not probably know how to distinguish between FIAT, TVS and UNO.

To us it was a 'car' and the fact that we were so worried about 'what they would screw up this time' whenever the car had to be taken for scheduled service was disturbing us. Today after owning a few other cars from the same and other manufacturer we realize how great the UNO was. Now i know that it was just a dealer issue and not a "UNO" issue.

But the ownership experience is spoilt. That cant be changed now whatever reason i attribute it to


To be continued.....

Last edited by gemithomas : 20th January 2010 at 13:50.
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Old 20th January 2010, 16:15   #55
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Continued from post 54 above...

Now before i continue with the "experience stories" lets give FIAT some goodies.

- Their recent FIAT First Team seems to be doing a real good Job. One of our friends here has already mentioned about his experience where the service centre guys came to his 80km far house with the parts when his car was not starting. IIRC the same Service Guys had not responded positively when called directly but after calling the FIAT First number things got sorted out in acceptable time. Long live the FIAT First Team.

- There are some people in FIAT top Brass who are genuinely interested in helping the customers. The one person i have dealt with is Mr.Mangesh Kodalkar. He does whatever is in his power to help the customer when they have a problem. Though its not practically possible to get him involved in every customer issue and he cant possibly solve all issues, a loud applause for his genuine interest in helping customers.

- "FIAT cars have Soul". Yes. You need to drive one for some time to know what i mean. No other car at close price range would give you that feeling of "being one". FIAT, Thanks for giving us awesome machines that run like a dream (atleast till some "Trained" service guy meddles with it).

- The TATA-FIAT service centre i go to now has some 'good' people who are willing to accept the fact that they are not well versed in handling FIAT Technology (dont know what's so different here from other cars). The ones at the earlier TVS centre 200km from here where i used to take my UNO were a bunch of (what word do i use?) with lots of attitude. They know nothing. They spoil every part they kept their hands on. And still behaved as if they were God and we were waiting to get some blessings from them. Personally i feel FIAT got some customer friendly people with the TATA-FIAT JV. Thanks man, you did us a GREAT favour.


To be continued...

Last edited by gemithomas : 20th January 2010 at 16:19.
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Old 20th January 2010, 16:32   #56
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I experienced the Palio 'tornado' fan effect for the first time today! I was standing outside my kid's school along with a bunch of other parents waiting for the gates to open. A Palio pulls up to drop someone and the 'tornado' starts. My shoes are unrecognizable after a couple of seconds and a bunch of others are coughing away to glory. The lady who got out got dirty looks and she said a meek 'Sorry' and stood some distance away. I completely believe gemithomas when he says that this effect causes fuel pump attendants to run away and embarrasment for the owner.
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Old 20th January 2010, 16:44   #57
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I've had this happen a lot to my indica. Thankfully it happens only occasionally as I dont drive it much during noon , since thats when it heats up quickly and the fan turns on

But I too would be not very happy if the car worked like that ALL the time
Happens with my Indica too. But I remember my Contessa, it had a fan run directly from the engine, consequently I had to take a lot of care not to park in dusty places
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Old 20th January 2010, 16:54   #58
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Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
I experienced the Palio 'tornado' fan effect for the first time today! I was standing outside my kid's school along with a bunch of other parents waiting for the gates to open. A Palio pulls up to drop someone and the 'tornado' starts. My shoes are unrecognizable after a couple of seconds and a bunch of others are coughing away to glory. The lady who got out got dirty looks and she said a meek 'Sorry' and stood some distance away. I completely believe gemithomas when he says that this effect causes fuel pump attendants to run away and embarrasment for the owner.
OMG, is 'tornado' so bad!. i seriously want to check this out!.
i havent heard any such expereince from my friend who drives it. anyways i will check with him!

Last edited by recshenoy : 20th January 2010 at 16:56.
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Old 20th January 2010, 17:47   #59
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OMG, is 'tornado' so bad!.i seriously want to check this out!.
i havent heard any such expereince from my friend who drives it. anyways i will check with him!
Ask him to park on a dusty road and turn "on" the a/c.

And for those who wanted proof. Here are the pics of the dents caused by the A.S.C while they were trying to identify the source of the "TAK" sound on the Black MJD that was mentioned earlier. Not sure if you'll be able to see it properly. This is all his camera could capture. Please see the marked portions. There are dents like this at equal intervals on the top side of the door close to the beadings or the glass to travel. I think some "trained" mechanic tried removing the beading putting his tool between the door and the beeding.

After spoiling the look of a 6 month old shiny Black Car - close to 10 visits the A.S.S - numerous calls to FIAT top heads and Service centre top heads - and beating out the happiness of owning a new car - and escalating the issue to a stage where he was threatened not to enter the showroom premises, Guess what the sound was attributed to.... A Broken Spot Welding

No one was willing to show us the broken spot welding since it was supposed to be hidden somewhere down inside the door. Anyways we both still dont believe that the spot welding can break on both doors causing this sound. But now that the owner has realised that a 'tak' sound once in a while is better than nightmarish experiences at the A.S.S, he has decided to "LIVE WITH IT".
Attached Images
  

Last edited by gemithomas : 20th January 2010 at 18:05.
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Old 20th January 2010, 19:07   #60
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Some Indica owners say that the tornado effect is seen in Indicas too. I think it is there in Ford Ikon (old one) too, correct me if I am wrong, surely the fan was too loud, but didn't notice dust may be because it was clean ground.
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