Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th January 2010, 19:55   #61
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

A broken spot weld is a serious chassis defect. That should NOT be handled so carelessly!
ImmortalZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 20:16   #62
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 53
Thanked: 3 Times
Default Vehement thoughts

Hello all,

I see that this post is already 4 pages old. Nonetheless I thought I can share my viewpoints here.

I drive the Palio Stile 1.6, which ofcourse differs in terms of the engine being discussed here. That apart everything else seems to be almost same as per my experience driving a Stile MJD for about 6000 KMS.

Case in point: I have spoken in a few threads about my drives to M'lore, in my 1.6. Well my car has munched almost every bit of road in Dakshina Kannada district. Folks there have one response to your question of road quality: CONDEMN (like their mono syllabi). Given this road condition I have to say the car has held up quite well and has developed some dash rattle when driven in low rpms. I am living with it.

Tornado effect: This is normal. Don't think of it as a problem. In certain (small to medium) roads you don't have to honk. People generally move away with the fan noise. Cool na! I have been told to switch off the engine umpteen number of times at fuel stations. SO WHAT. I just tell them its the radiator fan.

Tyres wearing out: Cause for concern. My fronts wore out on the inside (22K) due to execessive negative camber (Before correction it was at -2 degrees. After correction -1 degree). Now I get the camber,alignment and wheel balancing done every 3k clicks. I think Fiat needs to take a serious course correction since this is consistent among many Stile owners. Can we instigate a recall?

Fuel pump problem: I agree a fuel pump problem is a big thump on your heart but it happens. It's like a particular organ in your body (touching wood) has a certain problem. You rectify it with medications or surgery. You don't say the entire person is written off, do you!

Lousy A.S.S: Start pulling up erring and uncourteous A.S.S to the consumer courts, than continue to complain about their incapacity and rudeness. The things being pointed out here have happened to thousands of owners earlier, has happened in this thread and will continue to happen. Have we (TBHP) become a crying shoulder? What is the solution?

I completely agree with architect and thank him for breaking up the problems. Way to go!

LOVE THY CAR (FIAT). (i deserve this smilie)

Cheers !

Last edited by meremortal : 20th January 2010 at 20:35. Reason: typo
meremortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 20:57   #63
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 690
Thanked: 152 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Hope the OP posts some solid proof regarding the visit to service station and how FIAT is not doing what it should be doing . Gathering info from friends car that this is not right or that is not right can be done with any manufacturer.
Also i would like to repeat even my Maruti 800 Ac fan blows up dust on a dusty road .
and so does most cars when on AC mode if they have 2 or more speeds .

I hope this thread has some hard evidence as to how FIAT is not doing its job except written statements.

Regards
Trust_In_Thrust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 21:00   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
gemithomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 136 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
A broken spot weld is a serious chassis defect. That should NOT be handled so carelessly!
Not on the chassis. They claim its inside the door. But how did both doors have the crack? Well thats a genuine question but no brownie points for asking
gemithomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2010, 00:04   #65
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New delhi
Posts: 120
Thanked: 30 Times
Default

I 2, agree with most of the points put out before everyone by architect regarding problems by Fiat car owners. Inadvertant use of adultered fuel can lead to fuel-pump problems, and so does driving the car on reserve. Our car, has already gone through four fuel pump changes thanks to driving on reserve. The car tyres are bound to wear-out from inside out if there is a camber problem, driving through a pot-holled road can gaurantee a problem. I actually, love the tornado effect that the fan generates in our indica. One strongly believes that :The ownership experience is directly proportional to the quality of after sales service provided by the manufacturer.

I have a pre-conceived opinion that i would like to share with you regarding the European car manufactuers in India. One thinks , that european (esp. German) car manufacturers have a way of making things complicated in thier cars with respect to other car manufacturers like Japanese or indigenious ones. That in India, the dealers of these european car manufacturer (Like Fiat, skoda etc) have in thier workshops employed people who are unable to deal, diagnose , rectify the problems that they get from thier customers, skoda case in point. Thus, the customers end up suffering in thier ownership experience.But, then thats just my opinion.

One of the first points, in our list which help us determine which car from a maufacturer to buy is its: after sales service and parts availability. And keeping only this first point in our mind--to us this first point being most vital because we intent to keep the car for long-- enables us to discard cars of european car manufacturers.

Credit to T-BHP that they have given us a platform to know from various users about various car brands, about thier cars. Helps us make informative choice about which car to buy and which not.
ritedhawan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2010, 10:04   #66
Senior - BHPian
 
gemithomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 136 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
Hope the OP posts some solid proof regarding the visit to service station and how FIAT is not doing what it should be doing . Gathering info from friends car that this is not right or that is not right can be done with any manufacturer.

Also i would like to repeat even my Maruti 800 Ac fan blows up dust on a dusty road .
and so does most cars when on AC mode if they have 2 or more speeds .

I hope this thread has some hard evidence as to how FIAT is not doing its job except written statements.

Regards
Yes. Yes. I have already posted the pics of the dents created. Now you might think its a "Dealer issue" and FIAT has nothing to do with it. With FIAT it has always been a dealer issue. But are other brands dealing with customers through some other means?

About the dust thing. Even someone running on a dusty road could blow up dirt. I'm not sure you understand what it is like. See the above post by 'Gilead' where he has experienced it first hand. IF you claim even an 800 can do that..well. Probably we should consider it as a feature that our mjd's can do it better.

For your kind info. I am not making written statements after talking to my friends over phone about what they have experienced. In most cases mentioned here i have personally gone with them try help sort out their issues. Moreover i own an adventure and my father owns a UNO and thus i have got first hand experience in FIAT customer care.

I am trying to collect the entry slips that we get when we visit the service centre. If my friend still has them i will post them here. THe number of slips he has would probably help you assess if the brand's management is doing what it needs to do.

Last edited by gemithomas : 21st January 2010 at 10:07.
gemithomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2010, 00:59   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,271
Thanked: 443 Times
Default

Gemi, I am now unclear as to the point of this thread.

If it's regarding the "multiple problem with 15000 km run Palio MJD", then I've done my bit to help your friend and to warn myself.

If it's about the problems that plague Fiat India, we are mostly aware of them, both before Tata JV and after.

If it's about whether the Palio MJD was the "last nail in the Fiat coffin", well then I guess not because atleast in Delhi NCR, I get to see reasonable numbers of Lineas and Puntos. Clearly, Fiat is still around, at least for a short while.

Specifically regarding the problems that plague Palio MJDs, yes there are issues but so far I haven't found any major ones except the ones narrated by you and the bunch of clutch kit replacements due to gearshift problems, not due to a weak clutch. Rattles and the occasional AC thermostat problems seem to exist as well. Tornado fan is a non-issue for me. People have commented on its loudness but the NCR is already too dusty to notice some more being raked up by a Palio!

Last edited by architect : 22nd January 2010 at 01:01.
architect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2010, 09:54   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
gemithomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 136 Times
Default

Architect: Truly appreciate your help. Infact i've felt sad that most people (fiat owners) choose not to come up with their experiences (good or bad) here. Probably coz they are fed up!! I do appreciate you sharing your side of the story and helping sort out a few doubts. I will come to my intention of creating such a thread in the next few posts where i would conclude. Please do bear with me for a little more time. One thing i tell you. Its not about a particular car or a particular brand. Its about what me 'as a customer' and my close friends 'as a customer' have experienced during owning a product. That is exactly why i wanted this thread to be in the long term ownership section. But the MODS moved it to the Technical Section. If i had similar experience with some other brand i would have still come up with it here. Its been a long time on T-Bhp. And most have been as close as friend though we have never met.

MODS: Though i am not finished with my "experiences", If you seriously think i am adding no value with this thread kindly let me know and close this.

Continued from post 55...


Now that we have given some accolades to the brand lets get down to business. Let me now move from all my friends cars (have lot since i'm part of PUG too) and allow me to share with you my personal experiences.

- IIRC i've waited for close to a year for my headlight assembly change due to the famous fogging issue with FIAT headlights. In between i made umpteen visits to the service centre to talk to people there and try to procure this part. One time they even wasted my 4 hours telling me that the part had arrived. I specifically asked them if it was the motorised version (to adjust the beam level electronically) and they said yes. After 4 hours of waiting i check out the car and find its a non-motorised version. I tell them to put back my old headlight and stand with them. This was done in 30 min flat. Then why did it take 4 hours the first time!!! Ok. Its not just my car they have to look. Its understandable to a certain extent but not knowing the difference between a motorised version and one without a motor and committing to the customer that he has got the right part and making him wait for so long only to fit a wrong part is just not acceptable to me. I surely would feel bad that i choose this car when i walk out of that place. (How i managed to get the right part after close to a year is mentioned earlier)

- I had not received my service book with the car. The dealer promised to give it to me in a months time. But even after 3 months i saw no progress. I again had to send mails/talk to people at FIAT/TATA and at they end they say they cant give me a service book since a car will have only one service book!!! Now what a reason to give a customer. I argue with them and insist that they give me a letter stating that i dont have the service book and that would not affect my warranty. Luckily they agree to that. Seriously i never knew how great a thing i had done until i had to claim warranty and they started creating issues coz i dont have a service book!!! On the two instances that i had to claim warranty i have had to spend close to 30 mins fighting with them on this very issue. To add fuel to the frustration they tell me that i have not done my first two services Its finally traced to the fact that the dealer has had a software change and the data prior to that has not been updated. So my first two services do not come on their software. And i have to spend time fighting with them every other time i want to claim warranty.

- i've had to wait for 3 months for my clutch kit to arrive. And guess what they fix it and i can hear the a scraping noise when i drive slowly in gear. Its dismissed as a not so problematic release bearing sound. 4 months later, after just around 4000km i have to change the clutch kit again!!!

- After one service i hear some high amount of rattles from the dash. I trace it to some components in the fuse box (right side of steering) removed from its lock. Workmanship as shoddy as a roadside mechanic!!

The last time i had to replace my clutch kit i was given a bill of Rs.32 for "other items". You know what i found these "other items" to be...two small white tags like the one we get from Big Bazaar to tag our plastic bags. They have used this instead of the round metal locks that are supposed to lock the rubber bushes on the steering rod. How could you possibly think of charging Rs.32 (including VAT!!!) for such a small plastic tag that you get for free outside. No complaints on this part though. Let them make their money. But i need to get some quality workmanship. PLEASE. And the things they "fix" need to stay fixed for an acceptable period. A clutch change at 4000km is just not acceptable and spoils my ownership experience.

Every time we drive the car we love it so much that we dont want to sell it anytime soon, but every time we visit a service station we again start thinking of selling as soon as possible. Probably that called "Customer Service at its best"!!


to be continued...*


(*- subject to MODS keeping this thread open)

Last edited by gemithomas : 22nd January 2010 at 10:01.
gemithomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2010, 12:27   #69
Senior - BHPian
 
Epic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,246
Thanked: 335 Times
Default My Experience with a friend's car

Hi all,

I personally own a Swift but I have on many occasions accompanied my close friend who owns a Maroon/Paparika Red Tata Indica to Fortune Motors, Powai for his car servicing and minor issues. For some reason, the service advisor who attends to you always seems to disappear & then located after an hour or so which makes the whole service routine boring, long & tiresome! The car is always returned with a new problem or unclean. I know that I would never be a satisfied customer after leaving that service centre. I would however, like to share an incident which was funny for us but very silly on the part of a 'so called' authorised service centre.

I had purchased after market OVRM covers with indicators for my Swift. It is just a cover which has to be stuck over the original black mirrors with no modifications done. So even if you remove them, you will still have your stock original black mirrors. Since they come in chrome I had them painted from Vitesse at Andheri West. They got the painting job done in a day and had them fitted in 20 minutes. My friend like the painted body coloured look and also wanted them for his Indica. So we bought a set & since he was giving his car for a service & a touch up job to Fortune Motors, I told him to get them painted & fitted from them itself. So we gave the car and explained to them what we required and they confirmed they understood & boasted on how they have done these jobs a million times & asked him to have the car collected the next day. We left all excited about the new look and all.

The next day we went to collect the car and found the car looking good and gleaming but we immediately noticed the chrome mirrors standing out like an eye sore! The service advisor immediately switiched on the hazzard lights with a huge pride & a smile on his face to show us that the mirrors were connected properly as the lights flashed. We immediatly pointed out that the mirrors were not painted to the body colour as mentioned to them and confirmed yesterday. But to our confusion, the service advisor assured us that it has been done!! We were confused, to which he promptly removed the cover to reveal the stock mirrors under this cover which were previously black had been painted to the body colour!! We did not know whether to be angry, cry or laugh. We did ask him that why would someone want an area painted which canot be seen? To which he replied that customers have weird requests & they never say no to or question customer requests. So we thought to ourselves, oh so this is our fault & we are weird customers?? To top it all, they charged us for this ridiculous job!!! We just explained the entire requirement again and refused to pay for this nonsense and told them to adjust the payment on the mirror covers. They gave us the covers the next day as per our requirements. We still look back & laugh at this experience.

Hope I did not bore you guys with this story but I am just glad I own a Maruti.

Last edited by Epic : 22nd January 2010 at 12:33.
Epic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2010, 22:12   #70
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Delhi
Posts: 60
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Around 2 Years Back

1. His MJD has done just 15,000km over the time and he has a problem with the Fuel Pump!!!
2. The engine fan when on creates something close to a "tornado" on dusty roads. He showed me his engine bay that was washed 2 weeks back. It had more dust than my 38,000 km run car which has not had an engine wash.
3. The car Rattles like its just back from a off road Rally.
4. When the engine is started/stopped the car shakes like it is acting in an animated cartoon film.
5. He needs to keep turning on/off his a/c on long drives due to ice formation.
6. He had to change 2 tyres at around 8000km due to uneven thread wear.
I am a bit late to reply on this thread.
I feel that people who stay in Tier-1 cities are better off that others as they have many options. So owning a FIAT is comparatively easier here(Delhi).

My palio multijet (43K) has 3 part replacements till now
1) Digital clock losing time. Got it replaced under warrantly. Took 3 weeks
2) Key Housing replaced once under warranty. Part was available.
3) Car got hit underneath and got the brake assembly of right rear replaced. Part was available

Those who want VFM cars and absolute peace of mind, they buy a Maruti. Those who want exceptional quality and peace of mind, they buy a Honda or a toyota.
Those who use their heart end up buying a FIAT
vikasb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2010, 15:56   #71
CPH
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 577
Thanked: 33 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
1. His MJD has done just 15,000km over the time and he has a problem with the Fuel Pump!!!
The fuel pumps supplied to Fiats in Europe are being made by Walbro, which makes fuel pumps for many makes. Faults happen and sometimes failures are due to the fuel the pump is submerged in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
2. The engine fan when on creates something close to a "tornado" on dusty roads. He showed me his engine bay that was washed 2 weeks back. It had more dust than my 38,000 km run car which has not had an engine wash.
The fan moves a lot of air, which it is designed for. Obviously it would drag dust with it when dust is around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
3. The car Rattles like its just back from a off road Rally.
4. When the engine is started/stopped the car shakes like it is acting in an animated cartoon film.
He should check rear gearbox mount to start with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
6. He had to change 2 tyres at around 8000km due to uneven thread wear.
Uneven tyre wear is not the fault of the car, Usually it is down to kerb crawling, where people go far to fast over the kerb, speeding over read humps, minor accidednts or hitting pot holes. It is rarely due to wrongly set tracking.
CPH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2010, 10:55   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
wildon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,405
Thanked: 1,040 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
This clearly isn't a car you'd buy with your head as much as you'd do with the heart.
Our Linea experience proves this. A.S.S taking too much time for solving the issues. Too many loose parts/fittings and over all we are not happy with it. To be practical always go with your head here in India at least.
wildon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 12:53   #73
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 235
Thanked: 29 Times
Default

After giving my "gyaan" on this thread regarding Fuel Pumps, my Palio Stile 1.6 has started giving me this issue. There is a whining noise coming when I start the car. I am 99% bound to think this is a fuel adulteration issue. I went to Pune on Sunday. Before I started my return journey my tank was showing as half full. I decided to add in 500Rs worth of fuel and did so at the Petrol Pump near the Hingewadi flyover (anyone from Pune having comments on this pumping station for fuel quality ?) . I usually never fill in fuel in Pune. I do a tank up in Mumbai and that is sufficient for my entire journey.

Well anyway, this whining sound started coming from Monday. Is it a sign that the fuel pump is about to conk off ?
Seeler_Rebeiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Dealers DHABHAR.BEHRAM Indian Car Dealerships 84 30th December 2016 11:06
Is Tata milking it's customers dry in the name of Labor Costs? Zappo The Indian Car Scene 61 14th October 2009 13:04
Impure for sure! Excerpts from Outlook 4/4 issue amitoj The Indian Car Scene 25 9th May 2006 16:55
Fiat surprises it's customers. Way to go... satish_appasani The Indian Car Scene 32 21st January 2006 04:18
Tata Indicom Customers : CHECK your bills! GTO Shifting gears 20 23rd March 2005 14:49


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:48.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks