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Old 19th February 2010, 11:44   #1
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Default WagonR complaining on parking lot incline

I drive an almost 2-year old wagonr LXI (purchased thanks to lot of helpful advice in this forum)..and so far have been very very happy with the performance..Have done about 8000 km...mostly self-driven (with the utmost care )

Off late, i have noticed something while climbing up the parking lot incline.(Angle about 35 degrees)..There is a speedbreaker just before the incline, where i have to slow down the car to almost a stop. I do this in second gear. After that if i try to drive the car in second gear up the slope, it starts complaining. It has even stalled a couple of times on the slope in second gear. However, if i shift down to first on the speedbreaker, and drive up, there is absolutely no problem.

Is this normal? In general, i have a feeling that the car tends to be a bit underpowered in the second gear. If i slow down to a crawl in trafic, it becomes difficult to continue in second gear when i start moving fast again, and shifting down to first only seems to work.

Thanks in advance
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Old 19th February 2010, 12:25   #2
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Not sure what to say, as it depends on how you release the clutch & press the gas pedal. Do you experience vehicle knock when you move from second? Also, what happens when you move the vehicle from rest to motion, but in second instead of first? Give a try with switching off the A/C too.
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Old 19th February 2010, 12:29   #3
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Petrol engine with max torque coming in at higher rpms.
Just rev a little harder. Gets bad when there is water on the slope.

I face a similar slope in my apartment. No speed breaker but lots of traffic on the road.
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Old 19th February 2010, 13:35   #4
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If i may ask sir, why do you try to climb in the 2nd gear, why not he first in the first place? If i am correct its a Wagon R not any SUMO where the drivers consider the first gear as the high gear and usually take off from the 2nd.
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Old 19th February 2010, 13:47   #5
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I'd automatically put it in first gear and climb instead of lugging the engine and sometimes stalling it in second. Rev up a bit more! Downshift! Be a smart driver!
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Old 19th February 2010, 13:59   #6
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I have seen Innova regularly being started from 2nd without any fuss.
As rightly pointed out by many, a diesel has inherently more torque than a petrol engine
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Old 19th February 2010, 14:01   #7
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It is always advisable to engage first gear after coming to a stop or almost a stop. Revving up and riding the clutch to get through the bump and up the incline in second gear does not give one any advantage, rather would harm the car only. This is especially for small cars or for cars with less powerful engines with passengers load too.

Last edited by rajeev k : 19th February 2010 at 14:03. Reason: addition
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Old 19th February 2010, 14:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeraj Dabake View Post
Off late, i have noticed something while climbing up the parking lot incline.(Angle about 35 degrees)..
Hi Neeraj, if you were climbing easily on earlier days on second gear, and unable to do so of late, it could mean that your clutch could have worn out just a little bit more, I guess.
Reason for the additional clutch wear : Could be your old habit of trying to climb steep slopes in second gear instead of first gear. In such cases, as Rajeev said, you tend to rev the engine more, and ride on "half clutch" when the vehicle does'nt pull, leading to faster clutch wear. So, basically, always take steep slopes in first gear, and try to release the clutch pedal fully !
Cheers.

Last edited by mooza : 19th February 2010 at 14:24.
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:02   #9
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Yes, I agree with mooza. It could be your clutch.
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:04   #10
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Post Lugging is bad !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeraj Dabake View Post
Off late, i have noticed something while climbing up the parking lot incline.(Angle about 35 degrees)... After that if i try to drive the car in second gear up the slope, it starts complaining. It has even stalled a couple of times on the slope in second gear. However, if i shift down to first on the speedbreaker, and drive up, there is absolutely no problem.
While it could be a clutch problem, in 2nd, at 1,500 RPM you should be doing ~22 Kms, I'm assuming you're not climbing the speed-breaker at that speed, so your RPMs should be lower. The F10D has very good driveability since the torque band stays at approximately the same level from 2000 RPM all the way to 5000 RPM, despite that I would advise against lugging your engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeraj Dabake View Post
Is this normal? In general, i have a feeling that the car tends to be a bit underpowered in the second gear.
Yes, it's quite normal, in 2nd gear you're only putting down approximately half the torque that you're putting down in 1st.

Name:  F10D_Gear_Ratios.JPG
Views: 1227
Size:  82.2 KB</div>   <div style=

Last edited by im_srini : 19th February 2010 at 17:06.
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:15   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
While it could be a clutch problem, in 2nd, at 1,500 RPM you should be doing ~22 Kms, I'm assuming you're not climbing the speed-breaker at that speed, so your RPMs should be lower. The F10D has very good driveability since the torque band stays at approximately the same level from 2000 RPM all the way to 5000 RPM, despite that I would advise against lugging your engine.



Yes, it's quite normal, in 2nd gear you're only putting down approximately half the torque that you're putting down in 1st.

Attachment 291179


Hi srini,
can you please elaborate the graph.

thanks.
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:23   #12
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Neeraj

whay would you want to go up an incline on slow speeds from stationary in 2nd gear when you have 1st gear to do that. By no means it is a recommended thing and if you have been doing it for long then all that you've been doing is burning your clutch. Please try and avoid it.
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:41   #13
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Post F10d

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Hi srini,
can you please elaborate the graph.
thanks.
Hi Sumeet, the graph just plots the gear ratios for the various gears in the Alto VX (F10D engine) gearbox, i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, & 5th. For a given RPM & final drive ratio (for the Alto Vx it's 3.589), you will be putting down only half the torque in 2nd (ratio is 1.894) as you would be in 1st (ratio is 3.416). Of course, wheel RPM will be almost twice in 2nd as in 1st.

For the Alto-Vx & WagonR drivers who're curious, here's the power & torque graph for the F10D...

Name:  F10D_Power_Torque.JPG
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Size:  138.0 KB</div>   <div style=
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:48   #14
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Fascinating graphs; thanks!
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Old 19th February 2010, 17:57   #15
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I face the same problem when the AC is ON in my SPARKY, what I do is downshift/rev hard :-))
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