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Old 2nd March 2010, 22:17   #1
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Default Swift Vdi - Failed turbo under 5K on the clock!!

Something unusual that happened to my swift recently!! Primus is about 3 months old and has clocked close to 5k on the clock.

The day I drove the car out of the showroom I felt that the engine was a little too noisy for a new car and would knock very easily. So did drive it around for 2 weeks before she went in for the first service. RNS motors is the place I bought the car from so went back to them for the service obviously. Anyway on making a complain to the service engineer he only said "Saar, hosa gaadi, engine sound barate, 5000 - 10000 kilometers id sound irete" meaning new car so the engine will be noisy and upto 5000 - 10000km it will be noisy!!

So didn't bother about it too much since thats what they said. Anyways about a week later took it to my mechanice near home, who drove the car and said that "the diesel wasn't burning completely and hence the noisy engine. Drive it upto 5000km and then if the sound persists take it up with RNS"

Anyways, once the car crossed 3k I started to hear the turbo whistle a little too too well. another 1k later the whistle is a proper intake roar. OK thats when I started to worry. My mum's Verna made the same sound after 40k on the clock and under extended warranty it was replaced after fighting with the Hyundai dealership.

Last week I came to Mumbai for work and my car was due for service. So my dad (who was very concerned with the engine sound and turbo whistle kept telling me to take it up with RNS when the car went for the 2nd service) took the car to RNS for the 2nd service, waited for 45 min to get the car examined by an engineerand explained the problem to them and this is what happened -

Dad: There is a constant noise from the engine and a loud turbo whistle
RNS: Sir, that is normal on the swift
Dad: Don't use that excuse, I will show you 3 other diesel swifts which don;t have the same sound. If you don't believe me then show my 3 other diesel swifts right now that have the same sound
RNS: Sir where do you fill diesel?? sometimes bad diesel can create all sounds
Dad: Only Shell
RNS: OK, then no issues there. Is there an amplifier installed in the car (what the hell does an amp installation have to do with noisy engine and loud turbo)
Dad: What does that have to do with anything?
RNS: Does the car have an amplifier installed?
Dad: No just a normal audio system and no amplifier, check the entire car if you like
RNS: Ok (and they go about checking the entire car for an installation)
Dad: So now what is the problem
RNS: We will check since you insist, but we assure you that cannot be an issue with the engine

What bull crap is that?? Why does Maruti think they produce the most amazing cars, so much so that the effect has worn off on their service center employees?? They don't attend to the customer immediately and then throw attitude if you tell them something is wrong with a car manufactured by the brand they work for??

Anyway, what conspired is that 2 days later after checking the car and engine a call from RNS confirmed a damaged turbo which they claim is the main cause for the extra sound from the engine and all the knocking was due to the faulty turbo. But the turbo cannot be replaced since they do not have the parts in stock and would take a week to procure and then another day to install in the car.

So now the wait is on for the turbo unit to come and then my car will go get a replacement.

But my cause for typing this all down is that how can a brand new car (i know it was not used by the showroom, since I did insist on seeing the car before PDI and registration) come with a faulty turbo?? And how can Maruti of all the companies pass of something like that during QC??

Anyone else who has had a faulty turbo on any car withing the first couple of months of owning one??
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Old 2nd March 2010, 22:26   #2
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This indeed is very shocking! Do get this job well documented also, for any furture references. Hopefully its a very bad QC issue, but still 5k kms is toooooooooooo early for a turbo damage.

Was there any smoke issue's? Usually its the oil seals that give away first leading to oil leakage. In your case it sounds like a bearing failure. So maybe a good idea to check the oil lines to the turbo while fixing the new one.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 22:59   #3
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HHmm seems like you have a blown intercooler pipe, did u remember any speedbreaker rubbing the underside or may be a stone. turbos do not create constant whistle (only when they are on full boost and wastegate opens),now that you have mentioned u had a constant whistle and noise,it seems like there was a small opening somewhere in the infeed circuit,most likely after intercooler because the hose pipe usually comes pretty low down in intercooler circuit!
but hardly anything can be done now as you have already given the car at service.
now what the cool chap Might do is, get a blown out turbo from chor bazaar,swap the casing with turbo on your car,return the faulty turbo to maruti,and sell off the perfectly find impeller and turbine in chor bazaar again while fitting your car with a new one from company! You loose a few bucks,company loose a few bucks and merry man makes them HIS!
Turbos are almost bullet proof and don not trouble you generally(unless you run your engine without engine oil ),mind it these are not the enthusiast's setups from maruti,they are simple commuting vehicles
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Old 2nd March 2010, 23:14   #4
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Easy to blow a Swift turbo. Overfill oil by 300ml. Tada! And this is done by a lot of MASS.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 23:27   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoxicangel View Post
I started to hear the turbo whistle a little too too well. another 1k later the whistle is a proper intake roar. OK thats when I started to worry. My mum's Verna made the same sound after 40k on the clock and under extended warranty it was replaced after fighting with the Hyundai dealership.

RNS: OK, then no issues there. Is there an amplifier installed in the car (what the hell does an amp installation have to do with noisy engine and loud turbo)
Dad: What does that have to do with anything?
RNS: Does the car have an amplifier installed?
Dad: No just a normal audio system and no amplifier, check the entire car if you like
RNS: Ok (and they go about checking the entire car for an installation)
Dad: So now what is the problem
RNS: We will check since you insist, but we assure you that cannot be an issue with the engine

What bull crap is that?? Why does Maruti think they produce the most amazing cars, so much so that the effect has worn off on their service center employees?? They don't attend to the customer immediately and then throw attitude if you tell them something is wrong with a car manufactured by the brand they work for??
1. There is a genuine reason for asking you about the amp set-up, its not crap, its the first step in fault finding. If you have a faulty amp in the car, you hear a light "wheeeeee" noise during your run.

2. I have heard similar troubles with 4 of my friend owned Swifts. The ECU tuning is insane, no wonder many swifts have turbo failures, oil seal worn out much before their prime, or the engine gets noisy after certain kms.

RNS is a good place, dont worry , the car will come out clean.

I've seen at many A.S.C's , the more irate you are, you'll get only 70% finished job, they tend to overlook.

But you be more friendly, they go 1 step ahead to get your car in ship shape.

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 2nd March 2010 at 23:28.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 23:39   #6
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@dustom: Swift D pipes are not exposed, so chances of tearing em without any impact to the bumper and lower member assembly is impossible. Whistling sound might be due to the turb vanes touching the case due to a failed bearing?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 00:04   #7
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i think you're doing something wrong. Do you rev your engine before shutting it off? or should I ask - do you idle you engine for atleast 1 min before your turn it off?
it's a common misconception followed from truck drivers and well, chauffeurs - they think diesels need to be revved for god alone knows what, but that's wrong.

It's most commonly bearing failure due to the lack of lubrication from an overspinning turbo - when you rev the engine to when you switch it off, the engine stops, the oil pump stops pumping, but your turbo is still spinning without oil.

Don't disclose this to anyone though. you'll void your warranty.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 00:05   #8
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Turbo blowing is the swift is not t all surprising. Its some cheap 15K turbo which is used. Its unfortunate that you had to experience it so early. Try to get it replaced in warranty. 2 of my friends cars had the same issue, and they had to round behing the service guys for a long time to get the replacement turbos.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 00:22   #9
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can there be different vendors for the same turbocharger? IIRC, the turbo used in the swift is the KKK KP35, which is also used in all the FGT 1.3 MJD engines, along with the tata TCIC 1.4 engines, and the ford 1.4 TDCi
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Old 3rd March 2010, 10:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
can there be different vendors for the same turbocharger? IIRC, the turbo used in the swift is the KKK KP35, which is also used in all the FGT 1.3 MJD engines, along with the tata TCIC 1.4 engines, and the ford 1.4 TDCi
the manufacturer of the turbocharger is the same or done by a licensee. vendors (engine manufacturers) could be different. So yeah, it's possible that all the above use the same T/C.


Jesus owned a honda! LOL! You Blaspheme!
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Old 3rd March 2010, 11:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
i think you're doing something wrong. Do you rev your engine before shutting it off? or should I ask - do you idle you engine for atleast 1 min before your turn it off?
it's a common misconception followed from truck drivers and well, chauffeurs - they think diesels need to be revved for god alone knows what, but that's wrong.

It's most commonly bearing failure due to the lack of lubrication from an overspinning turbo - when you rev the engine to when you switch it off, the engine stops, the oil pump stops pumping, but your turbo is still spinning without oil.

Don't disclose this to anyone though. you'll void your warranty.
I don't rev my engine. I just let it idle for 30sec to a minute before killing the ignition. Something that I have followed from the time I started driving Turbo equipped cars like my dad Indica or mom's verna vgt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
This indeed is very shocking! Do get this job well documented also, for any furture references. Hopefully its a very bad QC issue, but still 5k kms is toooooooooooo early for a turbo damage.

Was there any smoke issue's? Usually its the oil seals that give away first leading to oil leakage. In your case it sounds like a bearing failure. So maybe a good idea to check the oil lines to the turbo while fixing the new one.
No smoking of the car from anywhere at anyone point of time. My mechanics evaluation when I told him the story is the same, that of a bearing failure. Which I got to know from RNS yest when they called my dad. (I wish I was in Blore to attend to this myself)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
HHmm seems like you have a blown intercooler pipe, did u remember any speedbreaker rubbing the underside or may be a stone. turbos do not create constant whistle (only when they are on full boost and wastegate opens),now that you have mentioned u had a constant whistle and noise,it seems like there was a small opening somewhere in the infeed circuit,most likely after intercooler because the hose pipe usually comes pretty low down in intercooler circuit!
but hardly anything can be done now as you have already given the car at service.
now what the cool chap Might do is, get a blown out turbo from chor bazaar,swap the casing with turbo on your car,return the faulty turbo to maruti,and sell off the perfectly find impeller and turbine in chor bazaar again while fitting your car with a new one from company! You loose a few bucks,company loose a few bucks and merry man makes them HIS!
Turbos are almost bullet proof and don not trouble you generally(unless you run your engine without engine oil ),mind it these are not the enthusiast's setups from maruti,they are simple commuting vehicles
Well since it is clear that there are no exposed parts under the car for a pipe to rupture easy I don;t think that was the case. The whistle had started long before the center of my car went over a helmet on the highway once at 100kmph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
1. There is a genuine reason for asking you about the amp set-up, its not crap, its the first step in fault finding. If you have a faulty amp in the car, you hear a light "wheeeeee" noise during your run.

2. I have heard similar troubles with 4 of my friend owned Swifts. The ECU tuning is insane, no wonder many swifts have turbo failures, oil seal worn out much before their prime, or the engine gets noisy after certain kms.

RNS is a good place, dont worry , the car will come out clean.

I've seen at many A.S.C's , the more irate you are, you'll get only 70% finished job, they tend to overlook.

But you be more friendly, they go 1 step ahead to get your car in ship shape.
Hmmm.. well I don't understand the deal with them being so snobby!! Well lets see.. Should know in a day or two as to what the deal is finally going to be. I am relying on what I get to hear from my dad or brother since they are in blore at the moment and interacting with RNS.

You are the first person I have heard saying that RNS is a good service center!! Got a lot of negative reviews from people when it comes to after sales service!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Turbo blowing is the swift is not t all surprising. Its some cheap 15K turbo which is used. Its unfortunate that you had to experience it so early. Try to get it replaced in warranty. 2 of my friends cars had the same issue, and they had to round behing the service guys for a long time to get the replacement turbos.
15k turbo!! lolz, last when I heard the cost from the company for new turbo setup was 60k plus taxes!! This sucks!! lol
Getting it under warranty only!! If they as much as charge for it, then its going be a great fight!!!
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Old 3rd March 2010, 12:11   #12
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the turbo (i've mentioned the model number) really does cost 15k (at least for the indica)
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Old 3rd March 2010, 12:41   #13
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intoxicangel,

Sorry to hear about your car. A turbo failure at 5k kms is unheard of. A small note though OT, is that did you go to the stock-yard to inspect the car?

When I was at my MASS for a routine service, a fresh batch of Swift (D) arrived and one of the delivery/service guys put the car in first gear, released the clutch and cranked the car jerking it forward instead of starting the car and moving it ahead. He did the same till he reached the parking spot and reversed the car into the parking bay in the same manner. One of the mechanics told him, that the starter will burn out and he replied - "So what, they (customer) can change it".

I felt like clobbering the low life right there

I took out my phone and captured it on video, will share it with the Manager of the service station during my next visit.

Is this what our cars are put through before they are given to us? I know it's a long shot, but something similar could have happened to your car as well.

Do let us know how it goes with RNS.

Regards,
gpa
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Old 3rd March 2010, 15:25   #14
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@ gpa

That is scary, which service centre? Hope it's not Sagar auto on banerghatta road
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Old 3rd March 2010, 16:01   #15
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@greenhorn - could be the fact that each manufacturer (car) sells at different prices!! or thats just the way they work for whatever unknown reason!!

@gpa - ouch, ouch, ouch!! nasty buggers!! this is what happens when the country puts a brand high up on the respect chain!! they really couldn't care less because not all customers are literate enough to know the difference between good or bad till something really drastic happens..
Yes I am hoping it all works out fine for and that I do get a problem free car at the end of it!!
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