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Old 4th March 2010, 16:07   #16
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Isn't this discussed already in one form or other to death already?

Both are common rails -the generation, implementation and state of tuning may differ, that's it.
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Old 4th March 2010, 16:27   #17
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The TDCi engine in Fiesta and Figo is known for its reposiveness. When launched this was the most refined diesel engine below Mercs. The best part about the the engine is that the turbo wakes up early so it feels lag free below 2000rpm compared to the Multijets. FE is at par with the MJD.

MJD engine on the other hand has a peaky power delivery. It feels much more punchy upwards of 2000rpm, though the punch starts dipping beyond 3100rpm but it can revv all the way till 5000rpm. Refinement and FE is as good as TDCi. The final outcome of NVH depends on kind of dampning and mountings used. It sounds clattery in Swift but same engine sounds boomy in Punto.
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Old 4th March 2010, 16:32   #18
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The TDCi is tuned for the low end and there is very minimal turbo lag whereas the multijet has turbo lag and can stretch its legs on the highway.

As my point of view, I would prefer the Multijet.
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Old 4th March 2010, 17:04   #19
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The TDCI comes with a smaller turbo, which starts spooling up around 1200 RPM. This helps in city drive and with a better low end grunt. On the other hand MJD has a slightly bigger turbo which spools around 2000 rpm. Due to this MJD has a better midrange. Hence MJD is a slight compromise within city(Read Turbo lag)and a better proposition on the highway. MJD might have a slight upper hand in FE due to its lower cubic capacity,but I believe it would be negligible.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:03   #20
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Has anyone got the power/torque curve of both the engines? It'd support our points better. Also, does anyone know which CRDi systems (e.g. Bosch . .) these engines use?
Knowing the Bore X Stroke of each of the engines also could help.
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Old 5th March 2010, 11:05   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe M View Post
Also, does anyone know which CRDi systems (e.g. Bosch . .) these engines use?
Multijet = BOSCH
TDCi = Delphi

TDCi has two valves per cylinder layout compared to Four on the MJD.

TDCi engine used in Fiesta, Figo and Ikon makes 68bhp power and 16kgm torque, The MJD with Fixed Geometry Turbo makes 75bhp and 20.08kgm(Punto)/19.38kgm(Swift) Torque.

Last edited by .anshuman : 5th March 2010 at 11:14.
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Old 5th March 2010, 11:34   #22
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For city driveability TDCI is better, for highways MJD.

Reason - The turbo in MJD kicks in only after 2000rpm, so to fully utilize the turbo you need to drive at above 2000rpm which makes the engine groan and the cabin a little noisier.

For people like me, who would want to avoid nosiy cabin, we tend to move to higher gears quickly, hence we don't use the turbo effectively. I would prefer the turbo to kick in at 1750rpm so that it can be used effectively without the cost of noisy cabin.

In highway driving, the late setting of turbo improves the in-gear acceleration and delivers torque at higher revband. Therefore, MJD is better in highways.

Since majority of my driving is in city, I would prefer early onset of turbo.

P.S: I have just illustrated which is better to drive, I have no clue on which is technically superior/advanced over the other.
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Old 5th March 2010, 15:11   #23
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Try to pass a speed breaker in TDCI with a petrol car and accelerate (not race). TDCI will keep up with the petrol car. Try it with MJD, you can see the petrol cars move ahead. You can catch them once the turbo kicks in and you will see all the cars in your RVM. As mentioned earlier, both are good.
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Old 5th March 2010, 15:14   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_1982 View Post
The TDCI comes with a smaller turbo, which starts spooling up around 1200 RPM. This helps in city drive and with a better low end grunt. On the other hand MJD has a slightly bigger turbo which spools around 2000 rpm. Due to this MJD has a better midrange. Hence MJD is a slight compromise within city(Read Turbo lag)and a better proposition on the highway. MJD might have a slight upper hand in FE due to its lower cubic capacity,but I believe it would be negligible.
not quite. THe multijet and the tdci share the same turbo.
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Old 5th March 2010, 19:19   #25
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I think the Multijet is far more superior than the TDCI as it is new technology. Also the fact that most of the hatchbacks in our country run on Multijet engines,proves a point that it is a much sought after engine than the TDCI among the manufacturers as well as the buyers.
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Old 5th March 2010, 22:49   #26
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Quote:
proves a point that it is a much sought after engine than the TDCI among the manufacturers as well as the buyers.
TDCi is being used in Ford,Mazda,Mini Cooper,Jaguar,Peugeot,Volvo,Land Rover,Mitsubishi, Citroen and Fiat.But in different avatars.
Source Ford Duratorq engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Multi jet also started life in 1997 and won the international engine of the year award in 2005
source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multijet
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Old 6th March 2010, 21:40   #27
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Basically I am not fan of diesel motors. Nevertheless, can anybody tell me the maintenance cost of this MJD/TDCI engines, compared to petrol engines.

CLJ
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Old 6th March 2010, 22:24   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Multijet = BOSCH
TDCi = Delphi
Correction - The 1.4 DuraTorq uses a Siemens SID804 or SID802 common rail injection system and not a Delphi system.

(Source - Ford DLD engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia & Ford Duratorq engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - (DLD "Tiger"))

Fiat pioneered the common rail technology, but the research was sold off to Bosch when Fiat was going through difficult financial situation.

Common rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quoted from the article : "After research and development by the Fiat Group, the design was acquired by the German company Robert Bosch GmbH for completion of development and refinement for mass-production. In hindsight the sale appeared to be a tactical error for Fiat as the new technology proved to be highly profitable. The company had little choice but to sell, however, as it was in a poor financial state at the time and lacked the resources to complete development on its own."
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Old 6th March 2010, 23:43   #29
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The new Ka comes with a choice of two engines, a 1.2 litre petrol with 69 PS (51 kW) of power and 102 Nm (75 ftlbf) of torque and a 1.3 litre TDCi diesel engine with 75 PS (55 kW; 74 hp) of power and 145 Nm (107 lbft) of torque. Both engines come with sub-120 g/km CO2 emissions (119 for the petrol and 112 for the diesel). Furthermore, a 1.4 litre petrol engine with 100 PS (74 kW) of power and 131 Nm (97 ftlbf) of torque will be added to the lineup in the future. All three engines are loaned from Fiat.
Source: Wikipedia

If the TDCi is technically superior why would Ford bother getting the engine from Fiat and like paying the royalty to Fiat ?

The Duratorq DLD-414 (or DV4) is a 1.4 L (1399 cc/85 cu in) straight-4-turbo-Diesel. Output is 50 kW (67 hp) at 4500 rpm and 160 Nm (117 ftlbf) at 2000 rpm. This engine was developed in Tremery by Peugeot, as described in the joint-venture agreement with Ford.
> 8-valve design, uses a Borg-Warner KP35 turbocharger but no intercooler. This is the same turbocharger as the Renault K9K Diesel. It is Euro III compliant, but will receive a diesel particulate filter in 2006 to make it Euro IV compliant.
Source : Wikipedia
It is actually a EURO III spec engine

The MultiJet Diesel

A small 1.3 L (1248 cc) version (called the SDE, Small Diesel Engine) is produced in Bielsko-Biała, Poland. The Multijet 75 PS version was chosen in 2005 as the International Engine of the Year in the 1-litre to 1.4-litre category.
There are four versions of this engine: a 70 PS (51 kW; 69 hp), a 75 PS (55 kW; 74 hp) (used in the Fiat Punto, Panda, Palio / Albea, Fiat Idea, Opel Corsa / Combo, Opel Meriva and Suzuki Swift), a variable inlet geometry 90 PS (66 kW; 89 hp) (used in the new Fiat Grande Punto, Fiat Linea, Opel Corsa, Opel Astra and Alfa Romeo MiTo), and a 105 PS (77 kW; 104 hp) is available to Lancia Ypsilon. At the time of the launch this was the smallest four-cylinder diesel engine available and has a fuel consumption of 3.3 L/100 km (86 mpg-imp; 71 mpg-US) in some applications. The engine is able to meet Euro IV pollution standards without the use of a diesel particulate filter.
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Old 7th March 2010, 13:28   #30
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Just to add my 2 cents, the main difference is in the name itself. MultiJet can split one fuel delivery into 5 small burst... which leads to a linear power delivery, lower emission and better efficiency. MultiJet Gen II this has been upped to 8 burst per power cycle.
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