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Old 18th March 2010, 14:18   #1
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Default Fiat Grande Punto / Linea tuning guide?

Anyone interested in a performance tuning guide for the GP/Linea for the present range and the forthcoming 1.6 M-Jet as well as the 1.4 T-Jet?

As far as I understand the engines available in India currently are:

1.2 8v
1.4 8v
1.3 M-Jet (75bhp)
1.3 M-Jet (90bhp)

The engines to be introduced are(?):

1.4 Multiair
1.4 T-Jet
1.6 M-Jet
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Old 18th March 2010, 14:36   #2
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wow that would be great piece of information , if you dont mind can you share this for 1.3 MJ diesel fixed GT(76 bhp)
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Old 18th March 2010, 15:09   #3
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wow that would be great piece of information , if you dont mind can you share this for 1.3 MJ diesel fixed GT(76 bhp)
I have gt no problem with it, but need to understand more about the cars in India. All my work is done on European models.

To give you some idea what I am on about. We have the Punto Mk2 1.4 16v, which requires a different induction to the GP/Linea 1.4 16v.

The GP 1.4 16v, the Bravo 1.4 16v and the Panda 1.4 share the same ECU, which currently can't be mapped.

The 500 1.4 16v, which is on the Panda platform has got a different ECU and can be mapped, but the induction routing is a pain.

If you can supply exact details or as much model info as possible them I can reference it to the European models, which are always different.
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Old 19th March 2010, 05:40   #4
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Before even thinking of performance modifications the owners of the respective should make sure that the engine and drive train is in good condition. Not too long ago we had at one rolling road re-mapping day six cars we refused to re-map and/or make any other modifications because it would have done longterm damage.

But even if the owner is thinking his/her engines is in good condition it might be different.

The reason lies in the abolition of lead compounds in modern fuels (petrol), which have been replaced by additives that aren't any less dangerous, but on top of it leave quite some more deposits including gums, tar and carbon deposits. The result is that from a few thousand kilo meters the piston rings will get sticky, which means piston blow by is heavily increasing. Diesel engines have their own combustio problems and suffer similar results, which means that they need similar attention.

This can be counteracted with high quality engine flush compounds that are added to the engine oil and run for some time.

Being Europe it was obvious to use European cars for testing. One of the cars we used was a regular serviced Ford Mondeo with a 2000cc (petrol) engine with a power output rated 130bhp.

The power difference between before and after the extended engine flush was 11bhp (eleven) The compression pressure difference between the best and the worst cylinder was from 65psi decreasing to 5psi.

Changing spark plugs and airfilter as suggested by the manufacturer will show some improvements.

Some high quality friction reducers (NOT Slick 50 etc.) will decrease the drag, which helps a little too.

Those measures also will reduce fuel consumption.

TBC.
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Old 19th March 2010, 09:24   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cph
Before even thinking of performance modifications the owners of the respective should make sure that the engine and drive train is in good condition.
Amen to that!
This is something that a lot of BHPians need to get.
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Old 19th March 2010, 18:02   #6
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To get the air out it obviously has got to get in first. Improvement should start with the air intake.

Between the design of an air intake for a turbo and a normally aspirated engine is some big difference.

I will start with the air intake for the 1.2 8v and the 1.4 8v engine.

The block of both engines is identical other than the bore. The stroke of the 1368cc is 5.11mm longer than the 1242cc engine.

On the head the difference is in the cam, the valves, the EGR (which the smaller unit didn't have in Europe, but the engine is not available in the GP any longer) and the variator. But this doesn't necessitate tw different designs for the air intake on the two engines.

Below is an example of an induction kit. Unfortunately this is the only picture Ihave at hand at the moment.



The total length of this induction hose is about 1200mm. The twin cone filter is placed very close to the OE snorkel mouth. Water ingress is less likely than with the OE induction because of the massive surface area of the filter element.

The point Fiat decided to pick up the air is for this application very good. The environment is still and the air is cool enough.

The reason for the length of the tube is in simple terms to build up a pressure in creas behind the valve when the valve opens. Due to the length the air column built up and the resulting pressure increase in the manifold at valve opening time the engine gets slightly force fed, which is the reason for an extreme low down torque improvement and a moderate improvement throughout the rpm range.

Please note that this application is not suitable for race engines that rev mainly between 8 and 12krpm.

When fitting this type induction recently to a 1.4 8v, te car was able to pull in top gear from 1300rpm up a slight incline and gained rpm.

Peak power increases by at least 5% and torque throughout the rpm range increases this way by up to 20% (mainly low rpm band).

TBC
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Old 19th March 2010, 18:08   #7
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This is very interesting. I have the 75bhp GP and would be more than happy to increase the power rating of the car.

Awaiting more information. BTW my car has done only 4000
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Old 19th March 2010, 21:28   #8
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Thats quite informative CPH. If you can get some better pictures with a few arrows pointing here and there for noobs like me, it would make for much better understanding. To the gurus, is fitment of such induction hoses undertaken in India, specifically in kochi, if anyone knows?

Keep 'em coming CPH.
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Old 19th March 2010, 21:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
To get the air out it obviously has got to get in first. Improvement should start with the air intake.

Between the design of an air intake for a turbo and a normally aspirated engine is some big difference.

I will start with the air intake for the 1.2 8v and the 1.4 8v engine.

The block of both engines is identical other than the bore. The stroke of the 1368cc is 5.11mm longer than the 1242cc engine.

On the head the difference is in the cam, the valves, the EGR (which the smaller unit didn't have in Europe, but the engine is not available in the GP any longer) and the variator. But this doesn't necessitate tw different designs for the air intake on the two engines.

Below is an example of an induction kit. Unfortunately this is the only picture Ihave at hand at the moment.



The total length of this induction hose is about 1200mm. The twin cone filter is placed very close to the OE snorkel mouth. Water ingress is less likely than with the OE induction because of the massive surface area of the filter element.

The point Fiat decided to pick up the air is for this application very good. The environment is still and the air is cool enough.

The reason for the length of the tube is in simple terms to build up a pressure in creas behind the valve when the valve opens. Due to the length the air column built up and the resulting pressure increase in the manifold at valve opening time the engine gets slightly force fed, which is the reason for an extreme low down torque improvement and a moderate improvement throughout the rpm range.

Please note that this application is not suitable for race engines that rev mainly between 8 and 12krpm.

When fitting this type induction recently to a 1.4 8v, te car was able to pull in top gear from 1300rpm up a slight incline and gained rpm.

Peak power increases by at least 5% and torque throughout the rpm range increases this way by up to 20% (mainly low rpm band).

TBC
very informative, thank you.
Read such a good post after a long time on TBHP.

To add to your point,

For a custom air intake to work, one first needs to decide what one requires from the engine,
is it low-end grunt or top-end power.

With this info in hand, you can decide the length and dia's that u need to run.
Runner lenght and dia play an important role, so does the manifold.

Usually, we dont touch the runners, but only the manifold.

So, as seen in the pic posted by CPH, we use a tube instead of the manifold.
The volume of air in the tube is the important consideration.

Also, the velocity of air in it. That depends on the diameter.

So, what ID are you running CPH?
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Old 19th March 2010, 22:03   #10
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This is great. More pictorial explanation would be helpful for noobs like me !

Also can you add Palio 1.2 into the list as Well
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Old 20th March 2010, 06:16   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalsa777 View Post
very informative, thank you.
Read such a good post after a long time on TBHP.

To add to your point,

For a custom air intake to work, one first needs to decide what one requires from the engine,
is it low-end grunt or top-end power.

With this info in hand, you can decide the length and dia's that u need to run.
Runner lenght and dia play an important role, so does the manifold.

Usually, we dont touch the runners, but only the manifold.

So, as seen in the pic posted by CPH, we use a tube instead of the manifold.
The volume of air in the tube is the important consideration.

Also, the velocity of air in it. That depends on the diameter.

So, what ID are you running CPH?
The ID is 76mm from the filter throat and reduces to 60mm and finally to 50mm, which is applicabl for bothe the 1.2 and the 1.4.
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Old 20th March 2010, 06:21   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s3va View Post
This is great. More pictorial explanation would be helpful for noobs like me !

Also can you add Palio 1.2 into the list as Well
The proble with the pictures is that I am a noob in getting them on the computer.

What engines is the Palio fitted with in India? Is the Palio 1.2 an 8v or 16v? Can you post a picture of the engine bay. I have never seen the Palio under the bonnet. We do not have it over here, but I believe that it is very similar to the Punto Mk2.
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Old 20th March 2010, 08:22   #13
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Old Palio has a 1.2 8v, rated at 72 bhp.
Palio Stile has a 1.1 8v rated at 57 bhp.
Of course, both these Palios have 1.6 16v rated at 100 PS.
Diesel options:
1. 1.9 NA 8v engine, rated at 62 bhp.
2. 1.3 MJD FGT, rated at 76 bhp.

These are Palio engine options from the beginning till now.
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Old 20th March 2010, 14:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
Old Palio has a 1.2 8v, rated at 72 bhp.
Palio Stile has a 1.1 8v rated at 57 bhp.
Of course, both these Palios have 1.6 16v rated at 100 PS.
Diesel options:
1. 1.9 NA 8v engine, rated at 62 bhp.
2. 1.3 MJD FGT, rated at 76 bhp.

These are Palio engine options from the beginning till now.
Thanks for the info.

By the sounds of it the 1.2 is a 176 engine, which has got the aluminium inlet manifold.

I take it that the 1.1 is the MPI version.
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Old 20th March 2010, 17:02   #15
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An update on the 1.3:

I went yesterday to my local Fiat dealer to look a bit deeper into air intake modifications for the GP 1.3 M-Jet (I just get the bonnet lifted in the showroom and start taking things apart. I get away with it because half the staff has got their cars modifed by myself).

It looks promising. By the time I am coming over to Mumba I should have in my suitcase at least a prototype for the Indian version (flood save).
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