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Old 8th May 2011, 01:04   #46
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Default Esteem - Hot start

Thanks for the replies :

1. Fuel pump and lines - fuel filter replaced about 1000 kms back, scheduled relacement after 20 k kms as per Owners manual - I get it done every service.
2. Spark plugs - replaced at 46 kKms - if spark plugs are faulty, shouldnt it show up during running

The pump is noisy when ignition is turned on - plan to get the whole tank cleaned shortly.

Last edited by dashoin : 8th May 2011 at 01:09.
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Old 15th May 2011, 22:58   #47
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

New observation:

This peculiar behaviour is more pronounced on petrol filled from IOC pumps. I refilled the tank from my regular HP pump and the problem seems to be reduced.
Is the car allergic to petrol sold by IOC .

On a serious note, I assume that the problem might be due to the changed chemistry of fuels? I do remember seeing that the percentage of alchohol and derivatives is on the higher side in BS4 petrol.
Could the problems be due to vapour lock?

Presently am waiting for the tank levels to reduce before I go for the fuel system cleaning.
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Old 16th May 2011, 01:18   #48
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by dashoin View Post
... This peculiar behaviour is more pronounced on petrol filled from IOC pumps...
OK, now I'm starting to suspect the ignition coil. Only that plays strange tricks on you.
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Old 18th May 2011, 22:51   #49
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

That has crossed my mind too and to tell the truth, I am scared of that happening. But I don`t think it could be the culprit.

The malfunctioning iof the coil at high temperatures should manifest itself during all hot starts also. But it does not.

New observation : With HP petrol, the car creates a problem in 3 - 4 cases out of 10. MASS mechanics are clueless as there are no error codes - I am trying to make the best of it.

OT - the coil is a weak link in the Esteem - there is a single coil and distributor system unlike Ford where there are individual coils. My 1.6 ZXi ran for about a week on three cylinders as I did not have time to go the service center to get it replaced. I shudder to think if the coil goes in the Esteem, I would be stranded!

Anyways, would check on that too!
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Old 19th May 2011, 14:09   #50
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

Why is it that this disease plagues only petrol cars? I mean old petrol cars. Across all makes. I have seen most old petrol cars suffering form this disease. Experts can shed some light on it. Not fair really considering so much money one spends on petrol and then this problem when they get old. While diesels these days seem to be logging starship mileages happily.
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:10   #51
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

Update:

After sticking to HP pumps, the problem seems to have reduced. This may also be due to the slightly cooler weather in NCR these days.

I am still keeping my fingers crossed and am avoiding IOC/BP pumps for now. It may as well as turn out to be a problem of vapur lock coupled with a weak fuel pump.

BTW, could anyone help me out with the connections of the canister to the fuel tank in the Esteem? Ikon was prety simple, canister was located near the petrol tank. Esteem has the canister mounted in the engine bay. If the sole purpose of the canister is to trap the fumes, it seems a lot of piping from the petrol tank to the engine bay. Considering the state of roads in Gurgaon, I might have scraped something which could be leading to this issue?

Guys please help !

Last edited by dashoin : 25th May 2011 at 13:13.
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Old 10th August 2011, 13:24   #52
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Default Update

I had gone to get my AC gas charged at a MASS and the issue replicated itself. The following was done:

- Fuel pump and lines : Checked the flow, was adequate.
- Plugs checked, found OK.
- No error codes.
- Fuel relay checked, connection pins slightly bent to give a good connection.

The problem occured only once after that. The next week my battery conked off and the problem seems to have disappered completely after replacement.
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Old 10th August 2011, 14:22   #53
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

Let us try and reason this one out. There can be two reasons - electrical and mechanical. In general a car takes more juice when cold cranked. Only exception is when the compression is very high (carbon). Not very common. I did come across one M800 where the problem was traced to a worn out bearing. When the car was hot it became worse.

Mechanical problems often happen due to a vapour lock (mostly when hot) or injector issues. I will suspect the former. When a car is parked for some time after running the under bonnet compartment gets hotter. Volia you have the recipe for vapour lock. Change of fuel does alter the problem - again small changes in the fuel evaporation.

I will say check the fuel lines and routing just in case it is running closer to the exhaust or something.

I will suggest a discharge test. remove the HT leads. Put a voltmeter on the battery. Crank for about 30 secs. The voltage should drop to 7-8V during cranking recovering to 11V+ after about 30 seconds. If Ok and cranking speed is normal then you maybe able to rule out the electrical angle. Then look for the fuel angle.
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Old 10th August 2011, 19:14   #54
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

Sir,

I had arrived at the same conclusion i.e., vapour lock.

As I had said earlier, the problem began with using BP petrol pumps. The car ran well on HP pumps.

As a habit, I do check the underbody myself whenever the car is on a ramp/jack.The lines etc. have been in their proper places. OT, I dislike having anything hanging / not secured especially wires and pipes.

Another theory that I had was the the higher temperatures in the engine bay would increase the internal resistance of the battery which might lead to a voltage drop for the fuel pump while starting. This was a possibility as the battery was more than 3 years old and the pump is the original one. Luckily, the battery gave up first and now the problem seems to be over.

Last edited by dashoin : 10th August 2011 at 19:19.
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Old 10th August 2011, 20:29   #55
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Default Re: Santro doesnt start when HOT

I think vapour lock is the cause--atleast in my car, if I try to start when its hot . I know for sure that the starter motor, alternator in my car are fine to be the cause of the problem and as for the battery ends the deposted carbon are done away with regularly nor is there any earthing issue.

Now the fact is,if I accidently shut off the engine at traffic light red and then try re-starting it ,either it starts immediately--well and good and I move on-- otherwise if it doesnt, a peculiar thing happens:- that it wont start no matter how many cranks i put it through!!. So, knowing for sure that If at the second attempt it didnt start , I make sure that I dont make futile attempts on re-cranking it--since it wont start-- what I do instead is push the car across the intersection, park it on the side and wait for atleast 30 minutes to maximum 1 hour and then one extended re-cranking does bring the engine to life. Although, I know it for sure that 'vapour lock' may be the cause of it , nonetheless, to evade such a situation altogether by not shutting off the engine at red light.Usually on the highways, If ever i need to make a stop accompanied by shutting off the engine, I make sure that the duration of that stop must not be less than an hour , atleast.

Someone did advise me that fuel to had a part to play in this and Ive tried it in my car to experience it. The conclusion, that i came to was(Atleast, applicable in my car):-- if I continue to use regular petrol from trusted pump whether from IOC or HP pump doesnt matter, then my chance of getting this re-starting problem are far less, but If i add Speed petrol Or the high rated Octane Speed 97 , the chance of getting this re-starting problem increase exponentially.
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Old 27th September 2011, 22:23   #56
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Default Car does not start after a long drive

I have a swift VXI petrol which has done 56,000 KMs still running on orginal Amaron Battery after 4 years and 6 months. Recently have noticed that after driving for some time and then stopping and starting for eg to fill fuel the car shows difficulty in cranking .This is especially more prominent if the car is slightly on an incline. Could it be that the battery needs replacement. Thanks in advance for you suggestions
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Old 28th September 2011, 00:19   #57
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Default Re: Car does not start after a long drive

Yes looks like battery needs replacement. Check the load while A/C, lights on. It should be around 13 Volt.
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Old 28th September 2011, 01:17   #58
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Default Re: Car does not start after a long drive

I'm not sure what the incline has to do with cranking effort, unless you are riding clutch. Long rides and difficulty in cranking; looks like your battery needs replacement.

Check the Sp Gravity.

Or else, 'might be' vapour lock.
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Old 28th September 2011, 01:21   #59
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Default Re: Car does not start after a long drive

A battery problem is unlikely as battery problems usually begins with difficulty to start after long stops and not when you just did a long drive. Also please clarify when you say difficulty in cranking does it mean weak cranking or the cranking is good but the car refuses to start?
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Old 28th September 2011, 02:38   #60
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Default Re: Car does not start after a long drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Slow View Post
A battery problem is unlikely as battery problems usually begins with difficulty to start after long stops and not when you just did a long drive.
I was also thinking on the same lines!

Get your alternator checked; from your description it seems to be the culprit.
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