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Old 23rd January 2012, 17:27   #46
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
That means that the clutch fluid in a hydraulic clutch has to be changed every 2/3 years, just like the brake fluid.

One question. Do they use any extra fluid for flushing, or just drain the old fluid and replace it with new. In my experience flushing once with extra fluid does help clean all the lines where contaminants may have deposited.
Hi @Aroy,

Yes, I think clutch fluid should be replaced every 3 years or so (in fact in the Tucson, both clutch and brakes use the same fluid).

And yes, as Digital_Vampire mentioned, the draining should be proper. I will get it drained once again - with extra fluid to flush and will also ensure that the brake circuit is draned as well. In my case they simply drained the slave cylinder (took a short cut I guess).

BTW, to be honest, I drove the Tuc again and my left knee started paining, so this clutch fluid replacement may be "placebo"... (unless I redo it the proper way and see a lasting change).
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Old 11th January 2013, 16:49   #47
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

Had to post here so see if i can get some clues...

I am running on the 3rd set of clutch assy,sleeve,cylinder replaced under warranty after repeated escalations and i still find my clutch rough & hard as in it is gritty/has a grinding/too much friction feel and squeaks while depressing and releasing.My vista Drivetech-4 has done 28k kms in close to 2 years.This happens particularly once the engine is warm and has done over 2-3 kms and the roughness persists until the engine cools down.Similarly a gritty noise can be heard outside under the gearbox after the engine is switched off.Once it is cool,it behaves normal.Just to cross check i had a couple of friends drive my car and they too felt the same,so i am sure its not in my head.

I requested the TASC-SA to take a test drive after which he found that the release spring above the clutch pedal in the footwell area had worn out.The roughness has subsided but is still evident to some extent.The SA notices that the clutch pedal shows fading on the bottom left after which he says that i depress the clutch from an angle and not properly downwards due to which the part has worn out.Now i don't know what to say after 17 years of driving

I really havent got this completely sorted out after trying 2 TASC's and the above mentioned replacements.Most of the Vista's develop hardness/roughness over a period of time.Surprising that the Maruthi's DDIS and the FIAT's clutches are much lighter throughout until the wear and tear.

On the other hand the current VX/LX models seems to have much much lighter clutch...like that of a petrol car.Do they have any modified/upgraded clutch and if so can the same be used in my version.

Any pointers on the above?
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Old 11th January 2013, 21:10   #48
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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Originally Posted by Sam.k View Post
The SA notices that the clutch pedal shows fading on the bottom left after which he says that i depress the clutch from an angle and not properly downwards due to which the part has worn out.Now i don't know what to say after 17 years of driving
Do you mean the pad on the clutch pedal? I.e the rubber pad where you put your foot on? If so, have a look in any car over 10 years and you'll see that most cars have similar wear trends. Sometimes happens on the brake pedal as well. On the clutch pedal typically it's the left bottom corner that wears the most. For no other reason that's how you tend to put your foot on / take your foot of. Rest assured, under no circumstance can it possible have any bearing on the problems you are describing. I do know that in some countries worn pedals can actually be cause for a MOT failure. (Mandatory safety inspection) But then again, replacing them is about as easy as filling up the window washer tank and only marginally more expensive.

As to your other problems I can't help. But I would think that any problems with hard to press clutches nearly always are related to something in the hydraulic circuit or the mechanical bits of pieces of master/slave and various lever. But not very often the clutch or thrust bearing.

Jeroen

PS: You can fix the problem of wear by replacing the rubber pads with slick looking aluminum ones!

Last edited by Jeroen : 11th January 2013 at 21:12.
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Old 10th July 2013, 23:52   #49
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

Clutch pedal of my accent have become stiff, not so stiff that someone would notice but driving in traffic is giving me pain in left knee. There was a minor leak in master cylinder and I got it replaced but still same hard clutch. Mechanic suggested to shift to Dot4 and when the cylinder was changed, Dot4 oil was filled (old dot3 fully flushed out). Clutch has no sign of slipping and hence I am thinking what could be the other reasons?
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Old 29th March 2015, 22:36   #50
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

Update after 2 years: Got the pressure plate, clutch release bearing changed too but still the clutch is hard. Clutch plate was in prefect shape so it was not changed.

What left to change to make it light? I have compared with other Accent and it does feel hard.
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Old 29th March 2015, 22:42   #51
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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Originally Posted by Hashim View Post
Update after 2 years: Got the pressure plate, clutch release bearing changed too but still the clutch is hard. Clutch plate was in prefect shape so it was not changed.

What left to change to make it light? I have compared with other Accent and it does feel hard.
Normally if the clutch is good, replacing the pressure plate and the release bearing settles it. Have you also checked the clutch cable? Please check it too.
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Old 29th March 2015, 22:47   #52
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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Originally Posted by rahul4640 View Post
Have you also checked the clutch cable? Please check it too.
Clutch in Accent is Hydraulic, no cables.
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Old 19th August 2015, 02:22   #53
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

Friends,
Great thread. Have few queries and need advice.

I need to go for clutch replacement for Punto MJD done 51000kms on stock clutch.
However, lately I hear from independent mechs that they get Valeo make Quadrajet clutch kits for 3000. And it similar to punto clutch kit which costs 5500 in FASS.
Even punto clutch kit is valeo make and diaphragm type. Dont know why the cost is high for MJD.

Can we put Quadrajet clutch kit to Punto assembly?
Are the design/fitting be good?
are quadrajet clutches harder compared to Punto? Punto clutch is super soft.
Any other issues of fitting process?

Please suggest.
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Old 19th August 2015, 12:02   #54
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

Any inputs please. Need quick decision to make to get replacement done.

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Originally Posted by blackstallion76 View Post
Friends,
Great thread. Have few queries and need advice.

I need to go for clutch replacement for Punto MJD done 51000kms on stock clutch.
However, lately I hear from independent mechs that they get Valeo make Quadrajet clutch kits for 3000. And it similar to punto clutch kit which costs 5500 in FASS.
Even punto clutch kit is valeo make and diaphragm type. Dont know why the cost is high for MJD.

Can we put Quadrajet clutch kit to Punto assembly?
Are the design/fitting be good?
are quadrajet clutches harder compared to Punto? Punto clutch is super soft.
Any other issues of fitting process?

Please suggest.
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Old 19th November 2015, 11:38   #55
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
My Hyundai Tucson has done 85000KM and clutch pedal has become hard over last few thousand kms. Finally took it to Hyundai and they said the pressure plate has hardened. I asked them to replace it but they said the entire set has to be replaced (clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing...).

The previous clutch overhaul was done at 55000KM. I reminded them about this and they said it's a problem with Tucson - the clutch life is average 25000KM only and the reason - Tucson has a full time 4WD (clutch operated - without central diff) and this takes toll on the clutch! Hyundai responded to this issue and released a modified clutch and pressure plate which should last longer!!! They will use that this time - let's see.

I told them that the clutch does not slip which means the clutch plate is OK (80kmph in 5'th gear is reached at 2000RPM - same as before). They said, yes, generally pressure plate gives away much earlier than clutch plate and the symptom of that is progressively harder clutch pedal (it's a slow poison so if you drive the same car daily, you will take time to realise this is happening while a new guy driving your car after a long time will spot it right away).

I asked if this can be solved by clutch fluid change, master/slave cylinder cleaning. They said no. It's a pressure plate issue. Any problem in the line/cylinders would manifest as "soft pedal travel till half way mark followed by hard pedal travel to the end position".

I asked if workmanship issues, misalignment during clutch overhaul, etc can cause such a short life of the pressure plate and they said it was true in old vehicles. In Tucson, there is no room/need for manual alignment.

I asked them to measure the pressure at the pedal as mentioned in this thread. And they said it's not possible in the service station as they don't have any instrument to do this. Also, they asked me what's the use of measuring this as everybody agrees that the pedal is harder than before and how measuring the hardness would help to solve/diagnose the cause??? I could not disagree!!!

Hey did you change the clutch plate, pressure plate & release bearing.... if yes how much did it cost...
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Old 31st December 2016, 13:37   #56
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

Hello everybody,

I am right now at HASS.

My Diesel Verna has hard clutch and slight problem during gear shifting. The gear shift problem increases after driving for about an hour.

The SA advised me to replace Clutch plate, pressure plate and release bearing. He said no use to bleed it. Also said that MC and SC cannot be at fault as the clutch is not spongy.

The car has done 54K Kms so I am not really convinced that plates are worn. Kindly help me how I should proceed.

Thanks
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Old 11th December 2017, 20:44   #57
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

I have done brake bleeding before in other cars of mine so I had fair idea of what to do and what not to, so this may not be for everyone. Yes, shops will tell you to replace the clutch or other parts, but if you think you have been treating your clutch well, then dont listen to them, do the clutch bleed first.

No pics, unfortunately, but text alone will help if you read carefully.

In the reservoir the fluid was not dark but slightly brownish. But after bleeding, the old fluid collected in bottle was dark though. The new good fluid is transparent.

I had ordered Motul fluid online which is 500ml bottle. It covered 2 of my vehicles - Brio P and Ertiga D, clutch bleed only, no brakes. If you plan to do brakes also then you may need 2 bottles.

Honda requires 8mm rachet, Maruti required 11mm rachet for bleed screw. For Maruti Ertiga D, I had to remove the battery + battery base plate + partially remove the intake pipe also. For Honda P, nothing was removed. Maruti D is bit more difficult as there is less space in the engine bay, not sure about Maruti petrol.

1) First i drained fluid from the reservoir using syringe. The design of reservoir is such that syringe wont go all the way to the bottom, so i attached a thin plstic pipe on the syringe and was able to extract fluid completely. The hardware store gave me white aquaguard plastic pipe which is thinner and worked fine for me to attach on my syringe (should be no more than 8 inch long). For slave cylinder nipple I used regular rubber pipe, about 1/2 meter), both pipes from hardware store cost me only Rs 20. In our case pipe diameter for syringe may wary depending on design of the syringe you have.

Also, there is a filter on top of reservoir which you will need to remove by hand, only then you can insert the pipe deep in the reservoir .

(Note: I understand that you are not supposed to empty the reservoir as it can damage the master cylinder valve seals, but this was different - here i am only emptying the reservoir not the valves down there, so it is OK)

2) Now pour new fluid in the reservoir, keep the cap covered but open unless you plan to take long break for next step below.

Wipe any fluid you may have spilled anywhere on the car (brake fluid is corrosive)

3) Ask a friend to sit in the car. Attach the rubber pipe on the nipple on one end and other end of pipe should be in the bottle which should be placed on the floor under the engine bay. Remove the rubber cap and loosen the screw by 90 degrees from original position. Tell your friend to press the clutch, HOLD, do not release the clutch. Now tighten the screw, now RELEASE clutch. Open screw again, press clutch, hold, drain, tighten, release - Repeat until you see newer clear fluid in the pipe. If the helper release clutch without the screw tightened then it will suck air in - not good.

In total, you should consume approx 250ml of fluid (you may use remaining 250ml for brake bleed at a later day).

Very important: Make sure you place the bottle on the floor securely so that you dont spill and make a big mess, or use bottle that has wide base so it wont tip over.

Note: Do not throw away the dirty oil, its poisonous and will pollute your own ground water (cancer). Just save it in a bottle and give it to good shop whenever you get chance, PLEASE.

Result: Honda clutch now feels like brand new car, goes down like butter comes up like butter - feels consistent. For Maruti, being a Diesel it is not as good as petrol Honda clutch, but for a Diesel it is much better than before.

I could have done it at a shop, but I had a holiday and some free time + I feel more satisfying doing things like these myself. Also, this process requires patience which shops dont have these days. It shouldnt take more than an hour.

The key is to do preventive maintenance rather than waiting for a problem to emerge. 2-3 years is a good time. Timely replacement of fluid will give long life to both master and slave cylinder. If you are dong this after 5-6 years then it is possible your cylinders may have been already damaged.

This procedure only replenishes 50% of the system, you should also bleed brakes for 100% new fluid in the system. 4 wheels means it may take more time so I may just get it done outside sooner than later. For now, I am happy with my clutch!

Last edited by aerohit : 11th December 2017 at 21:01.
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Old 11th December 2017, 21:38   #58
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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In total, you should consume approx 250ml of fluid (you may use remaining 250ml for brake bleed at a later day)
Firstly, thanks for sharing! Next time do remember to add photos to illustrate the DIY for the benefit of other members.

Just a tip, brake/clutch fluid is hygroscopic and an opened bottle should not be stored for lengthy periods of time and then used for top ups or a brake fluid refresh. Don't take a risk - just go buy a fresh bottle every time you intend doing this DIY service. Brake fluid flushes use less than 500 ml to 1 litre of fluid which makes it inexpensive.

Also, a 50% flush due to residual fluid means you need to perform the next flush sooner until all the old fluid is cleared.

Last edited by R2D2 : 11th December 2017 at 21:40.
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Old 11th December 2017, 21:50   #59
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Default Re: Hydraulic Clutches - Why the hardness, even when condition is good

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Firstly, thanks for sharing! Next time do remember to add photos to illustrate the DIY for the benefit of other members.

Just a tip, brake/clutch fluid is hygroscopic and an opened bottle should not be stored for lengthy periods of time and then used for top ups or a brake fluid refresh. Don't take a risk - just go buy a fresh bottle every time you intend doing this DIY service. Brake fluid flushes use less than 500 ml to 1 litre of fluid which makes it inexpensive.

Also, a 50% flush due to residual fluid means you need to perform the next flush sooner until all the old fluid is cleared.
Though the process is done, will still try to add some pics of the parts and other indicators soon.
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