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Old 31st March 2010, 11:03   #16
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Correct, the driving cycles for both these norms are different. Indian driving cycle runs at 90 kmph and Euro cycle at 120 kmph.

Spike
Thanks for pointing out the exact speeds. I have to say, 90 kph seems way too high for India, when you consider that the pollution problem is predominant within crowded cities only. And in these conditions, the average car travels at between 20 - 50 kph. Thus, our authorities should instead consider vehicle emissions at 50 kph (or lower). With a tall final gear ratio, its easy for many cars to claim "eco-friendliness" at 90 kph.

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Dumb question: Will my BSIII vehicle now not 'pass' the PUC tests?
Don't sweat, the PUC limits for your BS III car remains the same.

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
What positives can we expect when BSIV fuel would be used with BSIII vehicle. Any increase in FE, lesser maintenace costs etc??
No difference. However, I've heard some industry people complaining that using BS III fuel in a BS IV car can lead to compromises.
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Old 31st March 2010, 11:41   #17
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Are you sure? Why do you say so?
The basic components of the cat-con have stayed the same since they were introduced in the year 1999/2000 with the implementation of BS I norms. The cat-con will be damaged if you use leaded fuel which is now not available anywhere in India.

As pollution norms got stricter, the cat-con was moved close to the exhaust manifold to meet the norms. So if you use BS II fuel in a BS IV car, your cat-con will not be damaged.
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Old 31st March 2010, 12:19   #18
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Are you sure? Why do you say so?

Spike
I think we are already doing that for many of the new models, aren't we? Most modern cars are fitted with BS3 or BS4 engines/systems and we do fill petrol from all over the country. I am sure these engines are "backward compatible" except that the actual emissions may not be within limits of BS4.
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Old 31st March 2010, 13:12   #19
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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Another dumb question - What positives can we expect when BSIV fuel would be used with BSIII vehicle. Any increase in FE, lesser maintenace costs etc??
Using BS4 fuel in BS3 engine as far as diesels are concerned will be the death knell for the engine as far as injection pumps are concerned. Sulfur is the lubricant for most CRDI pumps. Correct me if I am wrong. Lowering the sulfur content from 350ppm to 50ppm will reduce the lubricity of the fuel. Those who have BS3 engines might be forced to use 2T oil to augment lubrication. Will have to do some research on the quantum of 2T oil per liter of diesel for optimum lubrication. The problem is the cat converter might get clogged faster with the addition of 2T oil in the fuel.
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Old 31st March 2010, 13:39   #20
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Exclamation Eyewash ?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I have to say, 90 kph seems way too high for India, when you consider that the pollution problem is predominant within crowded cities only. And in these conditions, the average car travels at between 20 - 50 kph. Thus, our authorities should instead consider vehicle emissions at 50 kph (or lower). With a tall final gear ratio, its easy for many cars to claim "eco-friendliness" at 90 kph.
Very true, wondering if somebody 'in the know' could put up the exact details of the test cycle for BS-4.

A related article that makes for a very interesting read, & also this allegation !
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Old 31st March 2010, 14:23   #21
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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
The basic components of the cat-con have stayed the same since they were introduced in the year 1999/2000 with the implementation of BS I norms. So if you use BS II fuel in a BS IV car, your cat-con will not be damaged.
AFAIK, there is a change in substrate compositions, also the cat-con is likely to clog faster if BSII fuel is used.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 31st March 2010 at 14:30.
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Old 31st March 2010, 14:54   #22
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
AFAIK, there is a change in substrate compositions, also the cat-con is likely to clog faster if BSII fuel is used.
Yes, the substrate compositions vary slightly. I meant BS III fuel and not BS II fuel. Apologies on the typo
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Old 31st March 2010, 15:11   #23
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Originally Posted by gpa View Post

As pollution norms got stricter, the cat-con was moved close to the exhaust manifold to meet the norms.
A dumb question: If this was the problem why did they not keep the cat-con closer to the exhaust manifold earlier itself? why wait for BS IV to move it closer.
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Old 31st March 2010, 15:22   #24
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Originally Posted by topedgemonk View Post
A dumb question: If this was the problem why did they not keep the cat-con closer to the exhaust manifold earlier itself? why wait for BS IV to move it closer.
The answer is simple - they didn't because it would increase the back pressure in the exhaust leading to slightly lower power output. I think this is evident in the new BS IV range of engines where they have a slightly lower power output when compared to the BS III engines.
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Old 31st March 2010, 16:22   #25
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Hindu BL article raising fears.

The Hindu Business Line : Auto sector seeks more supply of BS-IV fuel

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This is because the rest of the country will still be using BS-II petrol and diesel which could pose a risk to the more sophisticated emissions equipment in BS-IV cars
Few Dumb questions.
1. Whats the extent of damage of using BS II in BS IV car - outright or small cumulative.
2. What are the alternatives in such BSII cities - does buying a higher octance petrol helps reduce impact??
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Old 31st March 2010, 16:24   #26
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Using BS4 fuel in BS3 engine as far as diesels are concerned will be the death knell for the engine as far as injection pumps are concerned. Sulfur is the lubricant for most CRDI pumps. Correct me if I am wrong. Lowering the sulfur content from 350ppm to 50ppm will reduce the lubricity of the fuel. Those who have BS3 engines might be forced to use 2T oil to augment lubrication. Will have to do some research on the quantum of 2T oil per liter of diesel for optimum lubrication. The problem is the cat converter might get clogged faster with the addition of 2T oil in the fuel.
Well this is a misconception of fuel lubricity, it measured seperately and remains the same for both Euro III and Euro IV fuels. Infact most of the other properties remain the same, except sulphur, which is brought down to 50ppm.
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Old 31st March 2010, 23:05   #27
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Well this is a misconception of fuel lubricity, it measured seperately and remains the same for both Euro III and Euro IV fuels. Infact most of the other properties remain the same, except sulphur, which is brought down to 50ppm.
I sure do hope I am wrong as I have a Cruze to fuel in Cochin. Have you noticed that most car companies with CRDI engines including the Skoda brand with TDI technology prefer that you put in ordinary diesel into the tank instead of the costlier diesel. I wonder why that would be.
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Old 1st April 2010, 14:24   #28
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
I sure do hope I am wrong as I have a Cruze to fuel in Cochin. Have you noticed that most car companies with CRDI engines including the Skoda brand with TDI technology prefer that you put in ordinary diesel into the tank instead of the costlier diesel. I wonder why that would be.
Although , some suggest Normal and some premium including international car brands but that's because of their engine calibration, nothing else.
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Old 1st April 2010, 14:53   #29
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When can we expect BS-IV Premium (95RON) to be launched?

As far as the bulk of us are concerned the onset of BS-IV will allow diesels engines with particulate filters to be launched, while the differences in petrol will be essentially non-existent. I am told that there will be another warning light linked to the Lambda sensor in petrol cars to indicate if the pollution level goes out of bounds.
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Old 1st April 2010, 15:20   #30
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Originally Posted by arunkumars View Post
Autocar mentions that Fabia petrol, Octavia 1.9D, Tavera along with M800 will be discontinued in metros.
Any new additions to that list?
Today's Times of India (April 1st) adds Palio to the above list. They haven't specified whether it is Petrol or Diesel.
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