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Old 9th December 2015, 02:09   #76
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Default Re: ECU-remapping / Chipping

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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
Yesterday we came across another ECU remap company called Viezu, they offer 3 modes of mapping, fuel economy, extra power and torque and 3rd map mainly for racing enthusiasts. They charge reasonable amount compared to other tuners for remap and provide door service. They have been building a customer base mainly in Bangalore and also in places like Mumbai and Delhi. The vehicles remapped by them so far includes, Jaguar, Punto, Swift, i20. They offered a 30 day money back remap for my friend's i20, this is a 2011 model 6 speed CRDI suffering from a severe turbo lag in the lower gears. Their person came to our place in the evening and it took about 2 hours for remapping and followed by a test drive. He claimed a 30% increase in power and torque after the remap which has to be tested by us now. The stock code was first checked for any bugs and then the remap was carried out, the results was there to see immediately after the remap and the car was better to drive in lower gears with the turbo kick in happening around 1750 rpm compared to the earlier 2000 rpm range. We will be testing the vehicle extensively before making the final conclusion.
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Hi deehunk,

Any updates on the I20 remap.
I have also been pointed in the direction of viezu.com for a remap and would appreciate your feedback.
I am looking to do it for a petrol car - SX4 Zxi - which most tuners say cannot be done or if possible will only show a marginal improvement which is not worth it.
Viezu claim they can increase the bhp by 12 and torque by 20 nm.

Regards,
SS
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Old 9th December 2015, 06:48   #77
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Default Re: ECU-remapping / Chipping

So far no issues, vehicle is running fine. I too think tweaking a petrol vehicle is difficult just by increasing rail pressure, it also needs to be compensated by additional air flow. Ideally petrol vehicles requires a setup of CAI and fuel pressure regulator. It will drop FE of your car by atleast 2-3kmpl.
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Old 30th December 2015, 00:46   #78
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Hello guys,
I wish to share my ECU remap experience with my SX4 diesel and Grand i10 diesel.

June 2015 :Petes remap for SX4 diesel
My SX4 had run 80000 kms and was out of warranty. I wanted to remap the car and thought Petes was well established firm with good support. So I decided to get the remap done from Petes. Power gain post remap was claimed to be 115 bhp/255NM.My SX4 was 2011 model and it has 512 kb file, so reading of map took only 40 mins. Stock map was sent to the tuner abroad and got the remap file in 2 hours and flashed back to ecu in just 5 mins. Then we go for a drive and I was so impressed with initial turbo kick and there was wheel spin too. I left Petes cochin happily and then on my drive back to mangalore, I noticed the negatives of the remap. I noticed lot of black smoke and fuel efficiency was reduced by 15 percent. Also I noticed few flat spots in the map. Except for the turbo kick and acceleration, I started to dislike the map after driving around 10k kms and got it back to stock from Petes.

December 2015 Wolf Moto remap for SX4 diesel
I read about switchable maps for multijet engines from Wolf moto. I contacted them and they honestly said they have not yet done it on sx4, but it's definitely possible. I schedule a meeting with Rajiv(Wolf moto tuner) and drove to Kochi for the remap. As I was in hurry and tight schedule of Rajiv, He couldn't provide me switchable maps. It takes a lot of time to recode the ecu and flash switchable maps. So we decided to do usual remap and Rajiv would develop switchable maps for my car at later stage. I was explained in detail whatever he was doing and he has not touched injection timing, fuel rail pressure etc. He changed turbo boost, smoke maps ,driver wish map and increased fuel by 8 percent. He advices not to go for an aggressive tune and he will provide the same when he develops the switchable maps. So the map was flashed and we go for a drive, I missed out the turbo kick of Petes remap. But Wolf remap made the car very driveable. I enjoy driving in 5th gear with minimal gear shifts. There is good boost from 2500 rpm to 4000 rpm. I have driven only 700 kms post Wolf remap. No flat spots. Only issue I have faced is black smoke under hard acceleration and Rajiv has assured to take care of it when he flashes switchable maps.

I have heard Petes is good only for VAG cars, as they get remapped by custom code tuner from UK. NO credible information available for non VAG cars remap from Petes. Also it is best to sit next to the tuner and remap your car.
Cheers!!
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Old 27th January 2016, 10:53   #79
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Post Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

Note from Support: Posts from nkrishnap's Linea ownership thread regarding remaps moved here.

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Originally Posted by CarMaster View Post
Hi Krishna, I own a Punto 1.3 mjd 75 hp version which has clocked around 110k kms. I am planning to get a remap done. Since the car has crossed a lac mark on the odometer, will I be compromising on reliability or any other factors? The car is in excellent condition though. Thanks
You alter the way, the engine is designed to run and ofcourse it can have unpredictable results for the simple reason that the people who do these mods cannot afford to test these vehicles the same way the original manufacturer does it. When you do such mods, it's a risk and whether it's a risk worth taking depends on each person's circumstances.

Another point you might want to consider is the environmental impact it will have. We all blamed the VW cheat device. When you do the remap, you will be doing something very similar.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 28th January 2016 at 11:13.
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Old 27th January 2016, 17:28   #80
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Default Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
You alter the way, the engine is designed to run and ofcourse it can have unpredictable results for the simple reason that the people who do these mods cannot afford to test these vehicles the same way the original manufacturer does it. When you do such mods, it's a risk and whether it's a risk worth taking depends on each person's circumstances.

Another point you might want to consider is the environmental impact it will have. We all blamed the VW cheat device. When you do the remap, you will be doing something very similar.
You made a generic statement at best. I would be really glad if you could bring up some of the unpredictable results with a remap on the multijet engine (more so from the wolfmoto remapped ones), it would certainly be helpful to people seeking data on the remaps. Are you trying to convey that the engine will fall apart by remapping it? I know atleast a dozen cars (powered by multijet ones) with these remaps having run as reliable as the stock engine over 40-60k kms, though I am not sure about other ones if they have fallen apart like the Toyota's D4D, Ford's TDCi, Hyundai's CRDI

Coming to the risk part, even taking the car out on the road is a risk considering our traffic conditions

Coming to emissions, a good thought. But opting for public transport or the Electric vehicles would be way better in reducing carbon footprint than using the car itself for thousands of miles be it stock or remapped (as in you case well over 90k kms on your Etios).
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Old 27th January 2016, 19:17   #81
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Post Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
You made a generic statement at best. I would be really glad if you could bring up some of the unpredictable results with a remap on the multijet engine (more so from the wolfmoto remapped ones), it would certainly be helpful to people seeking data on the remaps. Are you trying to convey that the engine will fall apart by remapping it? I know atleast a dozen cars (powered by multijet ones) with these remaps having run as reliable as the stock engine over 40-60k kms, though I am not sure about other ones if they have fallen apart like the Toyota's D4D, Ford's TDCi, Hyundai's CRDI
It was meant to be a generic statement. Even with manufacturers who spend crores on R & D, they make mistakes they finally come up with the finished product. This happens regardless of how big a manufacturer you are. And for an engine remap which doesn't go through these hard testing process, there is always a question mark on long term reliability.

And, regardless of what you think of the other engines, I find the Ford's latest TDCi engine ( used in Figo Aspire ) more fun to drive than any other modded engines in business now. Same should be the case with Toyota's Euro 6 1.4 D-4D ( yet to be released in India, hopefully should come with the Vios )

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Coming to the risk part, even taking the car out on the road is a risk considering our traffic conditions
Yes, even sleeping at home is a risk. But, there is another factor that needs to be considered, which is the probability of occurrence. And I find it significantly high for such mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Coming to emissions, a good thought. But opting for public transport or the Electric vehicles would be way better in reducing carbon footprint than using the car itself for thousands of miles be it stock or remapped (as in you case well over 90k kms on your Etios).
Depends on the person's situation. If you have a sick or aged person in family to take care of and he/she needs frequent long trips to the hospital, there is no point thinking of electric cars and/or public transport. Same is the case with people who has other personal requirements. And governments bring in rules after taking a holistic view. If people start saying, I don't care about emissions because my carbon foot print is 10 times lower than a truck or similar reasons, then it will lead to anarchy. I think, we in team-bhp shouldn't publish or recommend such a thought process.

If we allow such a thought process, even VW can claim that the pollution norms are not applicable for them, because most of their customers doesn't run high kms per year.

Last edited by amalji : 27th January 2016 at 19:31.
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Old 27th January 2016, 19:49   #82
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Default Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
You alter the way, the engine is designed to run and ofcourse it can have unpredictable results for the simple reason that the people who do these mods cannot afford to test these vehicles the same way the original manufacturer does it. When you do such mods, it's a risk and whether it's a risk worth taking depends on each person's circumstances.

Another point you might want to consider is the environmental impact it will have. We all blamed the VW cheat device. When you do the remap, you will be doing something very similar.
What you say is true, but does not apply to all tuners. If the tuner knows what he/she is doing then you might, like in my case get better results than a stock car.

I am getting better mileage in my remapped T-Jet (Wolfmoto) than stock under normal city driving conditions, and the emmision is still well within legal limits. My modified swift is still going strong after 70K, and passes its regular emmision test with ease, and gives me about 12 kmpl, which I think is the average for city use, and (a BIG and) it is definitely much more fun to drive than a stock car. Lots of great quotes about taking risks but to me this says it all

"If you don't try you will never know"

You have to understand that most manufacturers tune their cars for worst case senarios, so most engines are tuned to underperform just to make sure that they don't fail. I think that the Indian obsession with fuel economy is going to strangle engine performance to the extent that you will actually start seeing more failures in so called 'tested' engines.
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Old 27th January 2016, 19:59   #83
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Default Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
It was meant to be a generic statement. Even with manufacturers who spend crores on R & D, they make mistakes they finally come up with the finished product. This happens regardless of how big a manufacturer you are. And for an engine remap which doesn't go through these hard testing process, there is always a question mark on long term reliability.

Yes, even sleeping at home is a risk. But, there is another factor that needs to be considered, which is the probability of occurrence. And I find it significantly high for such mods.
Based on what you have stated above even the stock engines can conk, isn't it?

All manufacturers are improving their engine line up and continously innovating on new technologies. There is nothing special about the Toyota engine nor it is relevant to the discussion here.

Quote:
Depends on the person's situation. If you have a sick or aged person in family to take care of and he/she needs frequent long trips to the hospital, there is no point thinking of electric cars and/or public transport. Same is the case with people who has other personal requirements. And governments bring in rules after taking a holistic view. If people start saying, I don't care about emissions because my carbon foot print is 10 times lower than a truck or similar reasons, then it will lead to anarchy. I think, we in team-bhp shouldn't publish or recommend such a thought process.

If we allow such a thought process, even VW can claim that the pollution norms are not applicable for them, because most of their customers doesn't run high kms per year.
It all depends on the needs isn't it. I need more power, someone else needs more torque, another needs more space, one's running can be pretty high, the requirements can be endless. In some way or the other everyone is adding to the carbon footprint.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 28th January 2016 at 11:14. Reason: Posts moved to existing thread.
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Old 28th January 2016, 11:07   #84
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Post Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
You have to understand that most manufacturers tune their cars for worst case senarios, so most engines are tuned to underperform just to make sure that they don't fail. I think that the Indian obsession with fuel economy is going to strangle engine performance to the extent that you will actually start seeing more failures in so called 'tested' engines.
Quoting from wolfmoto's website -

Quote:
Manufacturers always limit the performance of Turbo to increase Engine life and reliability. This means any turbo vehicle that is remapped at the hands of a capable tuner can unleash its full potential. More air = More fuel= More power. This means increase in the range of 15 to 25 percent which is huge change in the vehicle character.
So, they themselves accept that it's keeping in mind the engine life and reliability that the manufacturer detunes the engine to perform below the max capability. It's an informed decision that these manufacturers take. And the only negative of the DDiS/MJD s is its turbo lag. Engineers at FIAT and Suzuki are not idiots to avoid solving this problem if it was just a matter of a software remap.

And regarding the pollution thing, I did have a discussion with enginecal on the different tuning options they can do for me. These were my hard criterias in the discussion.
  • Impact on engine durability should be minimal.
  • Pollution should be under the permitted value

They gave me the options of an increased torque, and extended torque curve if both the above conditions needs to be maintained. They told me very clearly that if the torque curve needs to be extended on the left side, pollution will have an impact. Even though, the Etios D-4D is almost a lagless engine, I wanted it to be giving me power from even lower rpms because that's where you spend more than 80% of the time in typical Indian conditions. But, since that comes only at the cost of pollution, I decided against it. Instead will wait for the Euro 6 D-4D which provides peak torque from as low an rpm as 1400 rpms all the way till 2800 rpms!
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Old 28th January 2016, 11:47   #85
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Default Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Quoting from wolfmoto's website -

So, they themselves accept that it's keeping in mind the engine life and reliability that the manufacturer detunes the engine to perform below the max capability. It's an informed decision that these manufacturers take. And the only negative of the DDiS/MJD s is its turbo lag. Engineers at FIAT and Suzuki are not idiots to avoid solving this problem if it was just a matter of a software remap.
Exactly, and I don't want to live with a detuned engine when I have an option that the manufacture won't give me even if I am willing to pay a premium for it.

I don't know about your D-4D diesel, but I don't see any change in the emissions of my petrol T-Jet or the 10 year old petrol Swift.
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Old 28th January 2016, 12:07   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Quoting from wolfmoto's website -



So, they themselves accept that it's keeping in mind the engine life and reliability that the manufacturer detunes the engine to perform below the max capability. It's an informed decision that these manufacturers take. And the only negative of the DDiS/MJD s is its turbo lag. Engineers at FIAT and Suzuki are not idiots to avoid solving this problem if it was just a matter of a software remap.
Any car, stock or remapped if abused badly will lead to premature engine failure. I had got my sx4 remapped from Petes, where only fuel injection parameters were changed and boost was not even touched. That was actually bad for injectors, fuel pump etc. Then I got remap from Wolf moto where turbo boost was increased and parameters like rail pressure, injection cycle were same as stock. A remap may exaggerate an underlying problem. Usually even tuners give a safe tune, Wolf moto clearly advised that turbo charger would be at risk if I ask for more power. He has remapped around 200 fiat cars and all are running without any issues.
Cheers
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Old 28th January 2016, 12:34   #87
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Default Re: Petrol Hatch to Diesel Sedan - Fiat Linea - Now Wolfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
So, they themselves accept that it's keeping in mind the engine life and reliability that the manufacturer detunes the engine to perform below the max capability. It's an informed decision that these manufacturers take. And the only negative of the DDiS/MJD s is its turbo lag. Engineers at FIAT and Suzuki are not idiots to avoid solving this problem if it was just a matter of a software remap.

And regarding the pollution thing, I did have a discussion with enginecal on the different tuning options they can do for me. These were my hard criterias in the discussion.
  • Impact on engine durability should be minimal.
  • Pollution should be under the permitted value

They gave me the options of an increased torque, and extended torque curve if both the above conditions needs to be maintained. They told me very clearly that if the torque curve needs to be extended on the left side, pollution will have an impact. Even though, the Etios D-4D is almost a lagless engine, I wanted it to be giving me power from even lower rpms because that's where you spend more than 80% of the time in typical Indian conditions. But, since that comes only at the cost of pollution, I decided against it. Instead will wait for the Euro 6 D-4D which provides peak torque from as low an rpm as 1400 rpms all the way till 2800 rpms!
Having used a remapped Laura for over 35,000kms - I am in love with the tuning. Yes - smoke has increased under hard acceleration, which is the biggest problem with it in my opinion, but I've learnt to modulate the accelerator such that I can ride the torque curve without having to burn unnecessary fuel. On a normal city drive, I upshift @ around 1700rpm, and generally never cross 4000rpm even while overtaking or on an empty road.

Regarding engine life - there is no doubt that the components will wear out earlier, but the questions you should ponder about are:
- How much earlier would it wear out, and what parts would wear out?
A 10% increase in wear and tear is what I've budgeted for in the case of the Laura, and it is a risk I am willing to take because I will enjoy it just so much more for 90% of the time.
- When would maximum wear and tear + pollution occur?
Generally, when going flat out is when you would expect maximum wear and tear. In your case, given you would be upshifting around 2.5K rpm, how much would those components be affected?
- Will the tuner tune the map as per your preferences?
In which case, you don't need to push for a full blown remap that would stress your vehicle's components - but can do something a little more mild that would give you the power when you need it.
- Regarding pollution - are there any remedies?
A BHPian friend was suggesting getting a CAI for the Laura, which would allow it to breathe better and reduce the smoke as well. Still need to do research on it.
- What are the differences between the Etios D and Corolla D Engines?
If they have a lot of shared parts, shouldn't the Etios D be capable of handling a remap given the more powerful Corolla uses the same basics with a few differences?

Trust me - as wonderful as the Etios D engine is, it needs a little more torque below 2.5K rpm, especially with the A.C. on.
Also, may just be easier and more cost effective than replacing the Etios with a new Euro VI D4-D vehicle.

Last edited by lamborghini : 28th January 2016 at 12:44.
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Old 28th January 2016, 12:49   #88
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Default Re: ECU-remapping / Chipping

Reading the conversation above, I believe you destroy your engine to a large extent if you run only about BHP and torque figures. The game should be concentrating on how they are delivered. For example, with a 75 bhp and 19 kgm Swift Diesel, all I would be willing to pump up would be 90 bhp and say 22 kgm of torque with no flatspots and maybe the torque band improved by 200 rpm or so from the wall it hits at 3200 rpm.

Yes, it could be tuned to 105 bhp and say 25 kgm ( just a guess, I don't know the actual figure) but what about EGT when you drive it at top speeds say on the Mumbai - Pune Expressway ? What about the Gearbox ? Will it handle that sudden burst of torque ? Can you live with smoke bellowing from the rear when you accelerate ( I can't live with that even for a second ). What about flat spots ? A flat spot can mar the whole experience beyond belief.

I would run after a lower state of tune but accentuates the stock characteristics of the Swift D ( put which ever cars name in place of the Swift D) rather than turning it into a different breed altogether.
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Old 28th January 2016, 13:18   #89
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Default Re: ECU-remapping / Chipping

My primary reason for going for a remap was better drive-ability, mere bhp and Nm numbers in isolation are nothing but bragging rights, they may not translate to a better driving car on the road. The idea is to have a flat torque curve which makes the car easier to drive. Yes, I am aware of the fact that I "might" have lower engine life expectancy that the stock car but that is a calculated risk that I am willing to take. As long as the car doesn't pollute and I am OK with the hypothetically lesser life of the car, Dum vivimus vivamus
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Old 22nd July 2016, 01:16   #90
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Default Re: ECU-remapping / Chipping

Does anybody have any experience with UD Motors based out of New Delhi? Anybody got anything good, bad or indifferent to say about them? They remap ECUs, they say, and do a suite of other performance related functions.

http://www.udmotorx.com
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