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Old 30th April 2010, 18:00   #1
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Unhappy Modding Fiat Stile 1.6 | To do or not to do? that is the question

Hi guys,
i'm looking for some information regarding performance improvement and i have some ideas but definitely need more clarification from the experts here.

let start with the basics.
i have a palio 1.6 (stile) running only a K&N and clocked it on the VBOX with a 110 KG load in the passenger seat (read as my friend) and
managed to clock a 0-100 of 12.6 seconds. that's not exactly bad considering a friends baleno with stage 1 mods (FFE, filter, porting/polishing) clocked 11.5 seconds.
there is a vast difference in the weight of the cars and also the way they put their power down but i want to extract what i can out of the engine without blowing it up.
one start in this direction for me is to go for agressive cams.
the piper cams website has a bolt-on cam for the fiat 1.6 twin cam engine.
i dont know what exactly they mean when they say bolt-on. is it only a set of intake and exhaust cams?
does it include the valve parts that need to be changed? (stronger value springs)
what approximate prices am i looking at?
i see N1 racing and petes saying that they can get it for me and got in touch with them, but honestly, no offense to anyone here, they are only willing to speak further if i put the cash on the table.
i cant comment on whether i will but it or nor coz i have no idea what it is going to cost me. d obviously i dont want to be swindled either

what is the existing cam profile on the car in terms of the aftermarket terminilogy (250/260 and so on)
what profile would suit my car? they have mild, street and race
i'm considering throwing out the stock seats from the car and just getting 2 buckets in the front
will i need to get a roll cage in the car to maintian chassis rigidity?
i've also heard that the ECU from the old GTX can be plonked in the new cards to extract a little more juice out of the engine. how true is this and how cost effective?
also, is there a guy in this country who has ever worked on FIAT engines? all through this forum there are people
asking to stay away from any engine mods on this car but is there any hope if i do want to go ahead?
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Old 30th April 2010, 23:29   #2
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Originally Posted by lucifer919 View Post
i have a palio 1.6 (stilei dont know what exactly they mean when they say bolt-on. is it only a set of intake and exhaust cams?
Cams have to be bolt-on unless they require notching the head in certain places. They should be accompanied with an adjustable cam gear though.


Quote:
does it include the valve parts that need to be changed? (stronger value springs)
what approximate prices am i looking at?
i see N1 racing and petes saying that they can get it for me and got in touch with them, but honestly, no offense to anyone here, they are only willing to speak further if i put the cash on the table.
Never dealt with Pete's, but N1 usually replies to emails with exact costs. Try emailing them if you haven't.

Quote:
i cant comment on whether i will but it or nor coz i have no idea what it is going to cost me. d obviously i dont want to be swindled either
Piper should have the costs on their own website. Convert to INR, add a few more for import duties, shipping, distributor cut and so on.

Quote:
what profile would suit my car? they have mild, street and race
Depends on where you want the improvement and how much you're willing to put up with a funky idle and lack of torque at low RPMs.

Quote:
i'm considering throwing out the stock seats from the car and just getting 2 buckets in the front
will i need to get a roll cage in the car to maintian chassis rigidity?
Not if you're just removing the seats.

Quote:
i've also heard that the ECU from the old GTX can be plonked in the new cards to extract a little more juice out of the engine. how true is this and how cost effective?
Wait for someone else to answer that one, don't know.

Quote:
also, is there a guy in this country who has ever worked on FIAT engines? all through this forum there are people
asking to stay away from any engine mods on this car but is there any hope if i do want to go ahead?
CPH, although not from India, has worked extensively on Fiat engines. Unfortunately, it seems like some keyboard jockeys have snubbed him the wrong way and he doesn't post here anymore. PM him if you want.
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Old 1st May 2010, 00:08   #3
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@pranavt: Thanks for the response

i'm not looking to make a car that just goes straight and nowhere else. i want a balanced ride meaning something i can go fast with and at the same time take out on the street if i want to. accordingly, i think a street profile would suit me best.

IIRC, the piper website states that the street profile is 275 so how big an impact would this have on the engine response as compared to stock?

calling all fiat gurus here when i ask does anyone have any idea of the stock cam profile. i remember the picture put up by MoralFibre in one post about 0 degree overlap and the stuff but that does not have the profiles.

another thing i forgot to ask was does changing cams involve changing anything with fuelling?

please dont flame me here but i'm asking as i honestly dont know and there is really not much available online about these engines except in terms of generic twin cam engines and i dont know how applicable that information is.
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Old 1st May 2010, 08:04   #4
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Originally Posted by lucifer919 View Post
another thing i forgot to ask was does changing cams involve changing anything with fuelling?
Depends on the cams really. If they're very close to stock, the ECU's closed-loop corrections should take care of the fuelling changes. Otherwise, you will need a remap, standalone or piggyback to correct the fuelling and ignition.

Don't know anything about FIATs, so cannot answer the rest, sorry.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 03:24   #5
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First of all, I would strongly advise against any change in the cams. Do not open up the engine unless you really want to spend big money and have an extremely competent mechanic. Be very cautious with tuners who make big horsepower claims and even bigger bills.

I can tell you what I did to make my GTX faster.

1. Free flow exhaust with headers.
2. Delete the catalytic converter.
3. Make the car lighter by removing the rear seat and spare tire.
4. Run the car on premium fuel.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 17:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
CPH, although not from India, has worked extensively on Fiat engines. Unfortunately, it seems like some keyboard jockeys have snubbed him the wrong way and he doesn't post here anymore. PM him if you want.
There is some very annoying people who want to know everything better, but they haven't managed to put me off completely. I will sort them in my own time.

Living about 90km from Piper I have been there a number of times and dealt with them on some accasions, but will not do so in the future. Their customer support is appaling, the products are yesteryears technology and they lack the flexibility to work together with their clients.
Cat Cams, C&B, Newman or the cams that are developed together with my associates are much better solutions.

The first point that has got to be made clear is that if you use a different cam the exhaust has to be calculated correctly. Manifolds from the likes of Supersprint, CSC, Ansa or anyone else producing performance exhaust aren't suitable anymore.

The ports on the 1.6 are pretty poor. The 1.6 will most likely not have multi angle valve cuts, which benefit the power greatly. Compression ratio can be raised to about 12:1 before the fuel creates problems. Being a 2008 I assume that a klnock sensor is attached to the engine (Don't know as we haven't got the Palio over here).

With induction and re-map we get from the equivalent engine spec in the Fait Stilo between 120 and 125bhp. Adding a fast road cam and headwork done anyting from 140 to 160bhp can be achieved.

The maximum that can be extracted from the engine is about 240bhp normally aspirated.

You have to give me more details what you want to achieve.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 21:02   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH
The maximum that can be extracted from the engine is about 240bhp normally aspirated.
Thats what 1.6 litre NA engines in the JWRC put out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifer
the piper cams website has a bolt-on cam for the fiat 1.6 twin cam engine.
Coming to the topic, I know of one palio in Chennai which received Piper cams (Remember its got two cams). The engine had a lumpy idle which they corrected using the diagnostics. And "its wheel spinning into the 3rd."

Last edited by nitrous : 2nd May 2010 at 21:03.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 22:03   #8
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Since we are here surrounded by fiat experts and since i dint want to open a seperate thread for this(sorry for hijacking the thread).
here it goes.
I have the 1.2 Nv (pre stile)
which pumps out 72 bhp.
some where i had read regarding the Brazilian nv having 85 Bhp compared to the De tuned 72 for Indian conditions.
Is this info true?
And is a Remap possible to get it upto 85 Bhp ,if yes where exactly in India.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 22:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
First of all, I would strongly advise against any change in the cams. Do not open up the engine unless you really want to spend big money and have an extremely competent mechanic. Be very cautious with tuners who make big horsepower claims and even bigger bills.

I can tell you what I did to make my GTX faster.

1. Free flow exhaust with headers.
2. Delete the catalytic converter.
3. Make the car lighter by removing the rear seat and spare tire.
4. Run the car on premium fuel.
I completely second this!!!as someone who did a lot of research and phone calls to different tuners before i can say this-please do not think of any major engine mods for the palio 1.6.even trained mechanics are scared to touch this engine!!

for the free flow exhausts and headers you can contact raj hingorani in Bangalore.i am not sure whether the old gtx ecu can be fitted in the stile but even if it is possible, form where will you procure it?
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Old 4th May 2010, 05:00   #10
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Originally Posted by carfreak View Post
I completely second this!!!as someone who did a lot of research and phone calls to different tuners before i can say this-please do not think of any major engine mods for the palio 1.6.even trained mechanics are scared to touch this engine!!

for the free flow exhausts and headers you can contact raj hingorani in Bangalore.i am not sure whether the old gtx ecu can be fitted in the stile but even if it is possible, form where will you procure it?
Sorry, but I am not scared at all touching the engine. It is quite a nice engine to work on. It is fairly easy to extract more power out of it.
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Old 4th May 2010, 05:04   #11
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Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
Since we are here surrounded by fiat experts and since i dint want to open a seperate thread for this(sorry for hijacking the thread).
here it goes.
I have the 1.2 Nv (pre stile)
which pumps out 72 bhp.
some where i had read regarding the Brazilian nv having 85 Bhp compared to the De tuned 72 for Indian conditions.
Is this info true?
And is a Remap possible to get it upto 85 Bhp ,if yes where exactly in India.
The Brazilian version is a 1242cc 16v engine. To get from 72 to 85bhp a bit more than a re-map is necessary.
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Old 4th May 2010, 19:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
You have to give me more details what you want to achieve.

Hello all and thanks a ton for the responses.

@CPH, i'm looking at making the car more fun to drive. not saying it already is not but i'm looking for a bit more. honestly, there are hondas and suzukis all over the place with a ton of aftermarket supprt. the supoprt for FIAT in India atleast is disssssmal to say the least.
the reason i asked about Piper is that its the only well known source for FIAT cams here in India.

i dont exactly have a HP figure in mind but i want to go for relaiability along with power. not sure if that's the right thing to say but i dont want the car to quit on me when i want to push it harder.

also, the reason i dont have a full system exhaust is exactly as CPH mentioned in one of his posts. i dont want to get a exhaust now and then after a couple of mods find out that i need something else to match the current state or tune of the car.

honestly, i dont have money to just throw around and get replacements as ans when i need so i'm looking at a reasonable list of mods i can have done to this car and not break the bank at the same time.

speaking to a couple of mechs at FIAT service centers itself, the most favourable and safe mod suggested was a cam and ECU change hence the topic here.

i'm dont have anything set in stone yet so any suggestions and recommendations you guys can make are most welcome.Kiran.
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Old 5th May 2010, 02:33   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifer919 View Post
Hello all and thanks a ton for the responses.

@CPH, i'm looking at making the car more fun to drive. not saying it already is not but i'm looking for a bit more. honestly, there are hondas and suzukis all over the place with a ton of aftermarket supprt. the supoprt for FIAT in India atleast is disssssmal to say the least.
the reason i asked about Piper is that its the only well known source for FIAT cams here in India.

i dont exactly have a HP figure in mind but i want to go for relaiability along with power. not sure if that's the right thing to say but i dont want the car to quit on me when i want to push it harder.

also, the reason i dont have a full system exhaust is exactly as CPH mentioned in one of his posts. i dont want to get a exhaust now and then after a couple of mods find out that i need something else to match the current state or tune of the car.

honestly, i dont have money to just throw around and get replacements as ans when i need so i'm looking at a reasonable list of mods i can have done to this car and not break the bank at the same time.

speaking to a couple of mechs at FIAT service centers itself, the most favourable and safe mod suggested was a cam and ECU change hence the topic here.

i'm dont have anything set in stone yet so any suggestions and recommendations you guys can make are most welcome.Kiran.
My advise is to start with induction.

If you pm or mail me some shots from under the bonnet I can show you how to make a proper induction kit (we haven't got the Palio over here) or it might be that the Stilo 1.6 induction fits.

Next step depends on your budget.

BTW you dcon't need to worry about reliability. The 1.6 is bullet proof.
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Old 5th May 2010, 10:18   #14
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This is a pic of the engine bay of the Palio 1.6. Please ignore the dusts

Modding Fiat Stile 1.6 | To do or not to do? that is the question-photo0371.jpg
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Old 5th May 2010, 14:28   #15
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This is a pic of the engine bay of the Palio 1.6. Please ignore the dusts
Cars without dust aren't driven.

Anyway, thanks foor the picture. From what I can see the 174 vchassis is quite similar to the 176 over here.

Could you knidly make another shot from above, showing the space between battery and engine?

Thanks
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