Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th May 2010, 19:12   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default Baleno engine vibration

Hi all,
I need help in finding the AC amplifier in a baleno. i suppose there is something like that in the 2002 model sold here. i have a diagram of older ones with distributor ignition. the ECU gets signal of AC selected, electricals coming on through this thing in that model. can anybody give its location in car and cost of replacement. can idle air control valve cause this?

the problem:
engine vibrates very visibly and annoying when car is idling. rpm is always steady. its maximum with ac on. it vibrates even with hazard lights coming on when in idle rpm.

i tried increasing idling but the ecu brings it back to 700 after restart.
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 19:32   #2
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,746
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

Check/Clean the throttle body and set the idler circuit proper. Also ensure the engine mounts are in good shape. This should sort out the issue, assuming the engine is in good state of tune otherwise.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 19:41   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
rjstyles69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bengalooru..
Posts: 4,345
Thanked: 789 Times
Default

I would go on to check in the following order

1 - Check if all the cylinders are firing 1st. If there is a mis-firing cylinder then the engine tends to vibrate. I have seen this on a baleno.
2 - Ignition wires .
3 - Throttle Body cleaning.
4 - Engine mounts.
rjstyles69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 19:54   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

Thanks for the support.
i had given it to MASS. they initially said this is normal in a old car but i asked them to rectify. They did cleaning of throttle body, replaced spark plug, air/oil filters, changed oil. nothing changed.
i asked them to replace timing belt since car is 1lakh kms old. he billed me for tensioner only. said timing belt is fine. that was not expected when i already asked them to replace. he said have replaced alternator belt as it was not good. reached home and was about to dispose of the tensioner, when i noticed India written on it! Indian bearing in 2002 baleno?
i had a look around the engine, they ac belt has worn out badly but it was not replaced. my alternator belt was a year old. i suspect i was only billed for all this but they never opened the car. so i am not going back to MASS.
took it to another MASS he said we will replace engine mounts and see. i said will pay only if the problem clears, he was not ready.
took it to another guy, he said ac is having problem, he needs the car for research, will cost atleast 15k etc, i came back.
i revved it up from 1k to 6.5k instantly and there is no issue with engine. the problem is only from 700 to 1k rpm. i operate any equipment at that rpm the engine vibrates, but actual rpm is steady.
i cleaned all sensors, did ecu reset but there is no effect. when i had asked the mass guy about ac amplifier he didn't understand. may be i don't know what they call it.
can idle air control valve also cause this? lastly is ecu defective?
today i pushed the car on highway and got a o2 sensor fault, cleaned its connection and after reset it didnt come back till now. can o2 sensor cause this.
All spark plugs are new and didn't find any problem in its wiring.swapped the whole set with another baleno but problem is same. none of the old plugs had carbon on it.visually all had similar wear. alternator is less than two years old, will a single failed diode on it cause this?
i will prefer replacing not so very costly parts rather than paying mass.

If mounts are weak will it not vibrated with slam acceleration at other rpms?

Last edited by gigy : 6th May 2010 at 20:06.
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 20:35   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
rjstyles69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bengalooru..
Posts: 4,345
Thanked: 789 Times
Default

Quote:
i revved it up from 1k to 6.5k instantly and there is no issue with engine. the problem is only from 700 to 1k rpm.
If its a specific rpm range I would check the Ignition Module/Distributor.

How about advancing the timing and checking if the engine still vibrates ?
rjstyles69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 20:42   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,746
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

First go to reliable dealer MASS and blindly change that timing belt, its not really worth taking a chance with it. They would have a scanner and it would help you figure out if there are issues with O2 sensor, coils etc.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 20:48   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

i already have bad experience with sai service . ratan, spectra and ravi automobiles. now where to go? who will let me see what they are doing?
i am scared they will again bill it but not do the job. rather get it done by someone i know

i will buy a new set of ignition coils/plugs and see. can timing be altered in baleno, i was told its automatic,
another thing is when ac is switched on the rpm drops instead of increasing, takes long time to spool up , by that time the compressor cuts off.

Last edited by gigy : 6th May 2010 at 20:56.
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 20:55   #8
BHPian
 
Mr_Bean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 842
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Observed something very similar today.

I drove to office today with AC on full time, before switching of the engine, at idle there is lot of vibration with head lights on.

The vibration is non-existant when I switch off the head lights
Mr_Bean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 20:59   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,746
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

You need to check the idle actuator and advance circuits, the ac bogging down is an indicator that everything is not ok that side. But still replace the timing belt, anything beyond 75-80k kms is dicey and can land up with 20 to 40k engine jobs if things go wrong.

Slight vibration with HL is normal since HL will put additional load on alternator which loads the engine.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 08:26   #10
v&v
Senior - BHPian
 
v&v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,538
Thanked: 1,068 Times
Default

gigy,
i had a similar problem, my baleno used to randomly stalls at redlight with similar vibration when used with ac. No fixed pattern. The only thing i could find a pattern this happens max between 12 to 2 pm. After many visits to the MASS , it was finally diagnosed as CMP sensor failure(Cam position sensor), which used to malfunction randomly. it was changed all fine since that.

Just a guess in you problem, get it checked, it costed me 2k for it.

v&v

Last edited by v&v : 7th May 2010 at 08:27.
v&v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 09:59   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v&v View Post
After many visits to the MASS , it was finally diagnosed as CMP sensor failure(Cam position sensor), which used to malfunction randomly.
Wouldn't this generate an error code? Should be then visible during a scan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigy View Post
took it to another MASS he said we will replace engine mounts and see.
How much do the mounts cost?

Last edited by shuvc : 7th May 2010 at 10:02.
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 18:10   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

I had a cam position failure last year and replaced it due malfunction light coming on with it. that time it was spectra motors. they were cleaning the spark plugs and checking the car. i entered the workshop and was looking at them for sometime. when asked about scan tool, they said we don't have it. i asked him to check manually but he didn't know what was i talking. that was enough from a authorized sales and service center for me. i bought it across the table came home replaced it, erased code and all was fine thereafter. price was around1200.

Replaced both ignition coils today but no change.

The shock mounts/foundation have different pricing, right is about 6k, left 1.7k, others 2-3k. for exact price they said will have to order it.
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2010, 19:13   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

yesterday i did a ecu reset, removed and cleaned the ecu connections and all sensor connections. cleaned injector connections. redone the grounding of the throttle body and then went for some sprinted running. i noticed quite a reduction in vibration after returning.
replaced clutch (ceekay) and bearing for Rs.3300 as it was burnt of in last long run in ghats.
now its only so much that i can feel it on the steering and gear lever.
today replaced the complete ignition system components, both coils(Rs.2400), high tension cable(Rs.450) malaysian make and stock ngk plugs BKR6E-11(Rs.90 each). no difference noted in the vibration.
also bought timing belt(Rs.490) and ac belt(Rs.190). will replace them as and when i get time.
also got the three foundations 1700+1900+1900 except right one, which is expected in two days. all from opera house.
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2010, 20:55   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

while replacing spark plugs i observed oil in one of the plug well. so opened up the head and checked inside. there was corrosion formation in that ring area and oil was sweeping into it. cleaned up the corrosion as much as possible and applied a ring of rtv on it before closing it again. i hope it takes care of the leak now. i dont know if this is right procedure. so try at your own risk.
some pictures of how it looked. new plug cables are slightly longer than oem.
replaced the ac/power steering belt.
Attached Images
        
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2010, 22:27   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: zxc
Posts: 3,394
Thanked: 658 Times
Default

Traces of oil on plugs is a bad sign. The piston rings is about to give up.

Do your car emits white smoke when revv hard.?
SirAlec is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine Vibration & Noise Aashutosh Technical Stuff 1 2nd January 2009 10:32
Baleno Engine Vibration and Sound @ 1600 RPM Traveler Technical Stuff 11 25th October 2008 20:16
Scorpio 2.6 non crde mild engine vibration Mohnish Technical Stuff 23 13th July 2008 19:39
Noise and vibration in Baleno engine sans33 Technical Stuff 14 20th June 2008 18:42
Swift Diesel - excessive engine vibration when Idle. EDIT : Solved by MUL DieselFan Technical Stuff 36 2nd May 2007 11:37


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:22.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks