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Old 28th September 2010, 12:39   #16
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I've a question here - Is the same set of tests carried out for all the cars or the cars are classified under hatcback/SUV/MUV/sedans & each of them have separate tests under each segments according to their expectation to perform?
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Old 28th September 2010, 12:49   #17
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AFAIK, the tests are the same, but the benchmark in each category is different.
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Old 28th September 2010, 15:44   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
What is NCAP?
A lot of cars sold in India are also sold in Europe, we do not have central agency in India to rate the safety of cars sold in India
Kindly note that ARAI India is the Nodal Agency for Vehicle Regulations. It has published standards on various vehicle systems including safety, performance, etc. (You can check the list here: Automotive Specifications, Vehicle Design Standards, Automotive Safety Standards, AIS Standards Downloads, India)

They have published standards pertaining to all requirements like in europe.

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
I hear India will be enforcing crash requirements from 2012. Any body has more details on this?
Totally True. But this will only be enforced after our local OEMs (Marutis, Mahindras, Tatas) confirm their compliance for their new models (So it might take some more time).

Note, that even if the crash requirements are made mandatory, it will be applicable only to vehicles launched after the date of implementation of the regulation. The current models need to meet them after some time (roughly 4 years).

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
I've a question here - Is the same set of tests carried out for all the cars or the cars are classified under hatcback/SUV/MUV/sedans & each of them have separate tests under each segments according to their expectation to perform?
For regulatory purposes, vehicles are classified as M1, M2, M3, etc. (passenger) & N1, N2, N3, etc. (Load Carriers). There is no terminlogy used by regulators as Hatch, Sedan, Van, etc. But they publish the results with the type so as the public is not confused.

You can check this to understand the classification: Vehicle category - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most cars fall in the M1 category (as vehicles more than eight seats are not used as private vehicles & go only as cabs). Hence, they all need to meet the same crash regulations.

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Last edited by .anshuman : 28th September 2010 at 18:59. Reason: Please take a look at the mod note that has been added to the end of your post.
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Old 28th September 2010, 18:52   #19
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Thanks @A350 & Rajesh. What I intent to understand is, say a car like Nano will be tested for crash test at 25mph while Safari at 40 mph. Would such a variation exist when testing?
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Old 28th September 2010, 19:04   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajess_in View Post
Kindly note that ARAI India is the Nodal Agency for Vehicle Regulations. It has published standards on various vehicle systems including safety, performance, etc.
I know ARAI takes care of this. But we do not have any crash testing norms applicable in our country, no agency does crash testing of the cars sold here. Cars like Maruti 800, Maruti Gypsy, Mahindra Jeeps etc are still sold in our country. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Last edited by .anshuman : 3rd July 2013 at 16:22. Reason: typo
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Old 28th September 2010, 20:47   #21
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Sadly all cars be it European or Japanese come to India after a safety feature reduction to save money "With exceptions such as Skoda and Honda". As far as i have heard things like ABS, EBS, ESC, etc cost quite a lot and the company can save heap's if they exclude the safety features

This enables the company to protect their money margins and also introduce a car at a lower price starting price. Now a days companies are offering safety features such as ABS in higher end variants because company's cant fool everyone with lack of safety features

Now the airbags are generally limited to 1 or 2 because all you have to say is that the car has AIRBAG as a feature it does not need to specify how many thus saving money.

Electronic stability control is one of those quite expensive features that companies like to exclude even from high end models because it add's weight and costs much more than fetures like ABS.

Lets take the example of Fiat with the Linea, the highest end "Emotion Pk" has Airbags the second top "Emotion" does not but the price difference is about 50k-70k "I know other things like blue and me are also there but the difference is around this much". Would you buy Emotion Pk if only airbags were the only real thing you gave a slight care about?

Accidents in India are huge in number the least these so called "Responsible" car companies can do is give life saving features like airbags/ABS/ESC/ETC as add on's/options in all and every trim and variant. Imagine a car like Toyota Corolla does not have airbags in in lowest end variant :( pathetic. If one thinks he needs any feature like airbags he could pay say 10k-20k and get them installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
But we do not have any crash testing norms applicable in our country, no agency does crash testing of the cars sold here..

+1 You are correct and if anyone else thinks otherwise please submit some proof.
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Old 28th September 2010, 20:53   #22
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Note that the E-Class did not deploy any airbags other than the ones on the front. as am sure it does have curtains, we can clearly see the other cars in its class deploy their full gamut of cushions.

Again, to re-iterate, as much as these graphic representations help, i am not sure of the body of the aforementioned cars are the same as the ones being used for production in India. i for one can't believe the i20 has 5-star safety ratings, the body seemed very very frivolous ... (no offense intended)
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Old 29th September 2010, 09:22   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post
i for one can't believe the i20 has 5-star safety ratings, the body seemed very very frivolous ... (no offense intended)
This is a common mis-conception. As mentioned in some other threads by myself and so many other people, safety means, how safe are you inside the car, in an accident and not how the car retains it's shape in such an event. For passenger safety, the passenger cell have to remain intact with minimal intrusions and the impact energy absorbed by the crumple zones, without transferring it to the occupants' body.
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Old 29th September 2010, 10:50   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Thanks @A350 & Rajesh. What I intent to understand is, say a car like Nano will be tested for crash test at 25mph while Safari at 40 mph. Would such a variation exist when testing?
No. All cars / SUVs (category M1) will be tested for offset frontal crash @ 56 kmph (AIS:098). The performance of the dummies (Driver, Co-Driver, Child restraints) will be measured and certified for conformity.

Same applies for side crash (AIS:099), pedestrian protection (AIS:100), Rear Impact (AIS:101) & Steering Column Intrusion (AIS:096) for all vehicles. The idea is to make all vehicles to be safe no matter if it costs 1 Lakh or 100 Lakhs. But there are inherent deviancies given for the OEMs to take advantage of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
I know ARAI has takes care of this. But we do not have any crash testing norms applicable in our country, no agency does crash testing of the cars sold here. Cars like Maruti 800, Maruti Gypsy, Mahindra Jeeps etc are still sold in our country. Please correct me if i am wrong.
You are bit harsh IMO. Arai did test the vehicles sold / launched in India for crash compliance as per certain IS rules (for side door intrusion, door retention components - latch, hinges, etc.). But most were never mandatory, so the OEMs never took a serious note of these. Also, there was an independent crash test facility in Bangalore apart from the one in ARAI. The results of the tests were also kept confidential (to create a database for future).

Affordability is the only VFM that our OEMs have against their counterparts from outside. The materials saved by not adopting safety systems results in the lower costs. In a way the governments support this, so that our OEMs don't loose out to the competition.

Imagine if all vehicles meet the crash (mandatory or not), then they will be priced more or less the same (since all vehicles will have similar specs in terms of safety systems like airbags, seat belts with pre-tensioners, load limiters, crumple zones, door intrusion beams, curtain bags, etc.). Then the choice will be more of fit finish, styling & other parameters rather than affordability.

Note that the FE will be more or less equal as most vehicles (similar in size & engine) will have more or less same kerb weights.

The 800s, jeeps, etc. are still sold in India because there are people to buy them. With a huge gap between infrastructure across regions (urban / Semi-urban / Rural), these do serve the purpose for the "aam aadmi".

Kindly note that our OEMs still lack the capabilities that their outside counterparts (having more expertise) boast off. Then how to protect our people? It is by way of regulations / lack of them.

Last edited by Mpower : 29th September 2010 at 17:48. Reason: Please do not post in bold
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Old 16th October 2010, 06:07   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajess_in View Post
No. All cars / SUVs (category M1) will be tested for offset frontal crash @ 56 kmph (AIS:098). The performance of the dummies (Driver, Co-Driver, Child restraints) will be measured and certified for conformity.

Same applies for side crash (AIS:099), pedestrian protection (AIS:100), Rear Impact (AIS:101) & Steering Column Intrusion (AIS:096) for all vehicles. The idea is to make all vehicles to be safe no matter if it costs 1 Lakh or 100 Lakhs. But there are inherent deviancies given for the OEMs to take advantage of.

Kindly note that our OEMs still lack the capabilities that their outside counterparts (having more expertise) boast off. Then how to protect our people? It is by way of regulations / lack of them.

to add to your post, here is a bit of info on the safety tests being done in encap

What is ENCAP all*about??? | Automate4u's Blog

also you can find the safety rating of some best selling models in india
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Old 28th October 2010, 23:25   #26
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Exclamation Indian-Made Alto vs Hungarian-made Swift Crash Tests (euro-NCAP)

I just came across these two videos. One of them is the A-star, sold as the Alot elsewhere and the Swift.

The Alto is made only in India and the Swift is made in Hungary.





Any thoughts?
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Old 29th October 2010, 10:50   #27
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Is it just me or steering wheel of Swift juts in more into the passenger than in A-star on front impact? Also A-star seems to handle side impact better than Swift (comparing same type of test).

Can't make out more. Nevertheless, interesting video. May not be in the right section though. I feel mods sweeping in.

Edit: Had missed the ratings in the video on 1st look. Seems like Swift's 5 star rating might be due to the 6 airbags. I don't see much difference otherwise.

Last edited by asr245 : 29th October 2010 at 10:56.
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Old 29th October 2010, 12:30   #28
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Please correct me if I am wrong. I fail to understand the topic "Indian made vs Hungary made" cars. IMO both are Japanese designed cars and it is the design that matters rather than where it is made - unless the comparison is between a Indian spec car with an Euro spec version.

Last edited by pacman2881 : 29th October 2010 at 12:40.
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Old 29th October 2010, 12:58   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198 View Post
I just came across these two videos. One of them is the A-star, sold as the Alot elsewhere and the Swift.

The Alto is made only in India and the Swift is made in Hungary.

Any thoughts?
Yes.
Different Segments, smaller car vs larger car.
Older Design vs Newer Design.
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Old 29th October 2010, 18:03   #30
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1) The car are of different designs. The A-star is based on modified current Swift platform, i.e. the Swift currently available here. Ritz is also based on the modified platform of Swift that is currently sold in India. So A-star is from different design and one generation old as compared to the latest Swift that thread starter is trying to compare.

2) The latest generation Swift that is tested by Euro NCAP is on a new platform and a bit lighter than the current generation Swift sold in India. Its good to see that Suzuki Swift is scoring 5/5 in Euro NCAP. But that is a new platform i.e. newer design

3) All cars that are within 250 kg are considered to be of same class, but this is to the best of my knowledge. Would appreciate if somebody can throw light on this.
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