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Old 31st January 2014, 12:25   #46
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

The Overall rating is 5 stars which is what is stuck on the rear windshield of all i20's

Anurag.
Thanks for the link. But is it that the Euro version of the i20 is the same that is sold in India? If that is the case, then we can safely assume that the Indian version is as safe as the Europe version.
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Old 31st January 2014, 12:35   #47
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Thanks for the link. But is it that the Euro version of the i20 is the same that is sold in India? If that is the case, then we can safely assume that the Indian version is as safe as the Europe version.
That question only Hyundai can answer

But as much as we know the cost cutting etc that goes in here there would be some difference in cars that are sold in India v/s abroad (sheet metal thickness etc).

Such ratings are used as marketing gimmicks to attract the customer, not that I am opposing this (Hyundai should be proud) but not many will understand what these ratings mean etc. Main problem is we don't follow basic safety (seatbelts, helmets, safe driving etc) to enhance these ratings in saving us.

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Old 31st January 2014, 12:49   #48
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

I can say for MSIL that they have different manufacturing process for same model sold in India and Europe . I wonder if All follow the MSIL way ?

Problem is that In India ,local manufacturer has been successful in lobbying with Indian govt when it comes to of Crash Tests and safety features citing costs and other frivolous reasons. Remember how much hue and cry was created when Seat Belts were introduced ?

I would blame govt here for being not concerned with the safety of it's citizens. unless forced, no auto manufacturer will look at the safety aspect of their cars.
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Old 31st January 2014, 12:54   #49
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

Thanks Anurag for the information. What i was trying to understand and is not clear from the video is whether there are differences in the protection that the body shell provides in terms of cars sold in india and the same models sold abroad or is the crash performance worse purely because of the absence of airbags.

It is high time car companies start offering safety equipment as a optional pack (atleast) on all variants. The 2014 honda city for example has no option (even at an additional cost) for additional airbags while the Thai version gets upto 6 airbags
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Old 31st January 2014, 13:04   #50
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
I can say for MSIL that they have different manufacturing process for same model sold in India and Europe . I wonder if All follow the MSIL way ?

Problem is that In India ,local manufacturer has been successful in lobbying with Indian govt when it comes to of Crash Tests and safety features citing costs and other frivolous reasons. Remember how much hue and cry was created when Seat Belts were introduced ?

I would blame govt here for being not concerned with the safety of it's citizens. unless forced, no auto manufacturer will look at the safety aspect of their cars.
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Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
Thanks Anurag for the information. What i was trying to understand and is not clear from the video is whether there are differences in the protection that the body shell provides in terms of cars sold in india and the same models sold abroad or is the crash performance worse purely because of the absence of airbags.

It is high time car companies start offering safety equipment as a optional pack (atleast) on all variants. The 2014 honda city for example has no option (even at an additional cost) for additional airbags while the Thai version gets upto 6 airbags
The manufacturers and our Government is to be held for this manufacturing difference.

Out of all variants being sold hardly I have seen people buying the top-end variants and keep lamenting that I drive slow so why do I need ABS and Airbags, such level of arguments no one can do anything, usage of helmets will lead to hair fall. I fail to understand these arguments of the citizen with the law.

Since the top-variant with 2 airbags hardly sell why will a manufacturer bring 6 airbags and inflate the costs further leading to dead inventory.

Awareness is what is the need of the hour along with strict implementation of safety standards from government side towards the manufacturer for providing the same and treating Indians equal with the rest of the world.

Anurag.
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Old 31st January 2014, 13:15   #51
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Nano does well in this test by Autocar UK
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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I guess the Hyundai i10 would be overall 4 stars which is good enough.
The Overall rating is 5 stars which is what is stuck on the rear windshield of all i20's
Please read through the article and view the video in the link (NDTV). If you go by the NDTV report, the crash test was conducted for the first time ever, using the lowest variant of domestically sold models (and not the export ones). This is where the significance of the report comes in. If you see the results of the i10, it clearly shows a different picture than the one tested in EU. In ENCAP, the structural integrity of the cabin was not compromised as much as in this test. Same with the 4* rated Nano where according to Tata, there were "some minor" strengthening was done in the European model to pass the tests. After seeing the result of the domestic Nano, people should realize how insignificant are those minor mods. The bottom line is this - Cars for the domestic market and those for export markets are different, event he body shell. Wake up Indian buyers!
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I can say for MSIL that they have different manufacturing process for same model sold in India and Europe.
Exactly. I had expressed the same doubt in another thread regarding the Toyota Etios/Liva which fared well in Latin NCAP tests, but the point to be noted is that the cars sold in Brazil are ~100kg heavier than the tinny ones sold here. So definitely, there is skimping of safety for economy.
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I would blame govt here for being not concerned with the safety of it's citizens. unless forced, no auto manufacturer will look at the safety aspect of their cars.
Yes, very true. As a person who used to work in the automotive industry, I know the mentality of the manufacturers and in one way, you cannot blame the manufacturers. Their primary motive is profit and not the well being of the people. This is true especially in a country where most of the people are also ignorant about safety aspects. The government has to step in if this has to stop. Proper regulation plus monitoring the implementation of the same only will help.
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Old 31st January 2014, 13:20   #52
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I guess the Hyundai i10 would be overall 4 stars which is good enough.
If you read the NDTV article, i10 scored a 0. It was the base model of an Indian-manufactured i10 that was tested. Infact, all five Indian manufactured base models of Alto, i10, Figo, Polo and Nano scored a 0.

Only Figo and Polo showed some resilience, as per the test. More details here:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ma...st-time-477550
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Old 31st January 2014, 13:58   #53
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
That question only Hyundai can answer

But as much as we know the cost cutting etc that goes in here there would be some difference in cars that are sold in India v/s abroad (sheet metal thickness etc).

Anurag.
Won't the differences in kerb weight of the vehicles sold in India vis--vis the same model sold abroad be a dead giveaway?
Given that additional safety equipment will result in marginal weight gains, a difference in sheet metal thickness and/or additional protective structures/bars must have a substantial effect on the weight of a car.

From that perspective a little browsing unearthed the following :

Hyundai i10 UK spec 1248cc petrol has an apparent gross weight of 1450 kgs
source : http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/i10

while the similar Indian i10 (Grand) 1197cc even in its "Z-spec" weighs only 935 kgs per Team-BHPs review.
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Old 31st January 2014, 14:56   #54
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by mi2n View Post
From that perspective a little browsing unearthed the following :

Hyundai i10 UK spec 1248cc petrol has an apparent gross weight of 1450 kgs
source : http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/i10

while the similar Indian i10 (Grand) 1197cc even in its "Z-spec" weighs only 935 kgs per Team-BHPs review.
I believe that the difference is because the former indicates gross weight and Team BHP indicates kerb weight of the car. You can safely add 350 Kgs to the kerb weight to arrive at the gross weight of an Indian specific i10; this still makes for a difference of 165 Kgs between Indian and UK models.
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Old 31st January 2014, 16:03   #55
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I guess the Hyundai i10 would be overall 4 stars which is good enough.
Yes, it did well in the Euro Ncap. However, the Indian i10 scored a Zero in the Global NCAP.

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
That question only Hyundai can answer
I think we got the answer. The vast difference in test results of the models sold in Europe and India do answer if cars made for India are made 'differently'. Pity that the Global i10 is manufactured in India only; and still!

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Originally Posted by rdhawan15 View Post
If you read the NDTV article, i10 scored a 0. It was the base model of an Indian-manufactured i10 that was tested. Infact, all five Indian manufactured base models of Alto, i10, Figo, Polo and Nano scored a 0.

Only Figo and Polo showed some resilience, as per the test. More details here:
+1. However, I like the reaction by VW. At least they have now made the airbags standard across all trim levels. This is a good move, though comes after a bad rapport, but it is a welcome step. This should go long way in showing a better way to other manufacturers.

Once, which was much hyped for a much better EuroNcap performance, the Nano has also scored a 0. Frankly speaking, I was not shocked about Nano's rating at all. I was, when a report was printed that the Nano did well in probably the Euro Ncap.

Nothing much was expected from the Alto since its poor performance in the Euro Ncap was known. Wake up Maruti and it's time to take out a leaf from VW Polo. Get those airbags soon, or better, phase out that age-old platform.

Figo & i10 were shockers. Esp. the i10 when it is made in India only. Now, there is no reason to believe that the i20 which proudly wears that 5 star safety sticker on it is not worth it, since it is the 'Indianized' version of the other car which scored 5 stars somewhere else. That is simply unethical to have that sticker on the windshield which leads people to believe that they are driving a safer car than actually it is.

Last edited by saket77 : 31st January 2014 at 16:06.
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Old 31st January 2014, 16:24   #56
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by mi2n View Post
Won't the differences in kerb weight of the vehicles sold in India vis--vis the same model sold abroad be a dead giveaway?
In India 'Kitna deti hain" sells , so be it using higher gauge of sheet metal matters to support the fuel conscious mindset over safety.

in European countries the speed limits on higher side need sturdy cars to withstand impact which is not considered a priority given the Indian roads.
With the advent of tolled roads where cruising at 100+ is freedom, the importance of safety standards is not addressed because the usage split of car running on city to Highway is 80 : 20
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Old 31st January 2014, 16:26   #57
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
+1. However, I like the reaction by VW. At least they have now made the airbags standard across all trim levels. This is a good move, though comes after a bad rapport, but it is a welcome step. This should go long way in showing a better way to other manufacturers.
If only they can put their house in order when it comes to offering support !!! VW could dominate the Indian market in 5 years from now, provided they take customer support more seriously.

But, yes, Polo doing well is a definite plus for the VW group.
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Old 31st January 2014, 16:34   #58
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Now, there is no reason to believe that the i20 which proudly wears that 5 star safety sticker on it is not worth it, since it is the 'Indianized' version of the other car which scored 5 stars somewhere else. That is simply unethical to have that sticker on the windshield which leads people to believe that they are driving a safer car than actually it is.
Agreed, its a fraud on an Indian customer who is gullible in the absence of established legal guidelines.

It will be interesting to see if Hyundai comes out with any explanation of i10's failure and confirms whether the Indian i20 is indeed a 5-star rated vehicle.
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Old 31st January 2014, 18:40   #59
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

The Indian spec is always a compromised version. Because we as a people do not seem to value safety very highly and are certainly not willing to pay a premium price for it.

The I20 Euro Spec is quite a lot better than the India spec. Even the Petrol Asta with Options does not have ESP as standard and has only drum brakes at the rear. It does come with 6 Airbags though. One thing I cannot understand is that the I20 1.2 litre engined, Petrol Asta Options Manual Transmission version is manufactured on demand since it is primarily meant for export. Is it that even the export version does not have disc brakes at the rear and lack ESP as well? What is the logic that prevents these manufacturers from giving us all the safety kit if we are prepared to pay for it? At least the safety stuff should be offered to us as an option.
At the risk of repeating myself across posts, I think that the idea of the I20 Automatic being given to consumers with only one driver side airbag, is downright stupid!


How many airbags does the top spec Toyota Corolla Altis come with?

It is only the more premium and the upper end European vehicles that do not change their specs too much for the India market.
Bottomline, if you want safety, then be prepared to pay big bucks for it!
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Old 31st January 2014, 20:25   #60
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Default Re: Euro NCAP Ratings of cars sold in India

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
The Indian spec is always a compromised version. Because we as a people do not seem to value safety very highly and are certainly not willing to pay a premium price for it.
I am quoting my own post (Post no.: 50; same thread),

Quote:
Out of all variants being sold hardly I have seen people buying the top-end variants and keep lamenting that I drive slow so why do I need ABS and Airbags, such level of arguments no one can do anything, usage of helmets will lead to hair fall. I fail to understand these arguments of the citizen with the law.
I agree with you on the fact not many are willing to pay that prce for high-end variants with safety feature in it.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
At the risk of repeating myself across posts, I think that the idea of the I20 Automatic being given to consumers with only one driver side airbag, is downright stupid!
That variant would hardly sell and why would the manufacturer deck it up and raise the price further?

I guess it should be around 9L?

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
It is only the more premium and the upper end European vehicles that do not change their specs too much for the India market. Bottomline, if you want safety, then be prepared to pay big bucks for it!
Quality and safety come at a price that we Indians are ignoring and just running after 'Kitna Deti Hai?', till this attitude is lost nothing much can be done.

I was joked by a fellow customer at Maruti showroom during my Swift ZDi purchase, he says, why pay so much for the same looking car and a in-dash stereo and ACC?! Why not buy a VDi and save that money for future?!

I just gave him a smile and asked him what if I meet with an accident? Will the stereo save me? He was silent after that!

Anurag.
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