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Old 17th May 2010, 10:26   #1
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Default Black Smoke emanating from my Palio

I have recently observed that my palio 1.2 (pre-NV, 02 model) is throwing black smoke from the exhaust (even at idling) and this happens mostly when running on Petrol. When it switches to lpg, it runs fine and no black smoke.

The petrol running has this black smoke. The vehicle was recently serviced in Concorde Bangalore (it has done 54,440kms). I am planning a trip to hyd in my palio on 27th of this month. So i am just wondering if this is anything serious to be taken care off immediately or can be done leisurely.

I also want to know what can cause this black smoke.. I and my friend suspect that it is Oil burning in the cylinder (a possible piston ring issue?) If it is this or anything else, what can be the cost of repair and where to get it done in bangalore? Can i travel to hyd and be back with this condition of engine?

Engine Oil: Mobil 1 Fully Synth ( done 4000 kms after changing)
Fuel : Indian Oil petrol or BP LPG
Recent Service: 1 week ago @ Concorde Mysore Road

Niggling Issue: A click sound coming from the left front wheel, apparently from a loose pin/break shoe/housing which vibrates when run over a pot hole or dug-in speed breaker. Suspension is absolutely fine, but Concorde says, it is the pin in brake caliper which is causing this click sound. I also want to know if there can be a fix for this sound issue. Concorde says it will cost 4500 to change the caliper housing and thts how we an fix it... is der a cheaper alternative ? (braking is fine, suspension is good.. just the click sound that bothers me!!) ... now this coupled with the black smoke, i dono whats happening

universal problem: Vapour in the left headlight assembly.. i dont know if it will even be fixed.. but i am not changing the assembly anytime soon !!

Plz help me in diagnosing the right issues and fixing them... more importantly can do a long trip in this baby this month ?
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Old 17th May 2010, 12:58   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
Niggling Issue: A click sound coming from the left front wheel, apparently from a loose pin/break shoe/housing which vibrates when run over a pot hole or dug-in speed breaker. Suspension is absolutely fine, but Concorde says, it is the pin in brake caliper which is causing this click sound. I also want to know if there can be a fix for this sound issue. Concorde says it will cost 4500 to change the caliper housing and thts how we an fix it... is der a cheaper alternative ? (braking is fine, suspension is good.. just the click sound that bothers me!!) ... now this coupled with the black smoke, i dono whats happening
The click sound comes from the caliper pin - you will have to take it to the lathe and get it fixed - but it will again go back to its normal 'click' position after a round of pot-holes and speed breakers.

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universal problem: Vapour in the left headlight assembly.. i dont know if it will even be fixed.. but i am not changing the assembly anytime soon !!
temporary solution - open the bulb holders - use hair drier to get rid of the moisture - seal any leaks around the HL cluster glass - make sure the breather pipe (L-shaped thingy) of the HL cluster faces downwards.
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Old 17th May 2010, 13:35   #3
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The click sound comes from the caliper pin - you will have to take it to the lathe and get it fixed - but it will again go back to its normal 'click' position after a round of pot-holes and speed breakers.
Hmmm, so i guess i should stop worrying abt that !! The thing is it has bcome prominent recently, sounds a bit more than just a click.. a little more mechanical sound, and when i touch the break shoe at various places, i can see a few stuff movable


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temporary solution - open the bulb holders - use hair drier to get rid of the moisture - seal any leaks around the HL cluster glass - make sure the breather pipe (L-shaped thingy) of the HL cluster faces downwards.
Will try this out !

Any idea abt the Black Smoke from the exhaust ?? It comes even while in idling, but doesnt come when running in LPG instead of petrol. Is this a serious issue ?/
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Old 17th May 2010, 13:49   #4
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Any idea abt the Black Smoke from the exhaust ??/
How recent is this issue? After the service?

Normally, the major culprit is adulterated fuel. But it would help if you can get it checked by a good mechanic
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Old 17th May 2010, 14:04   #5
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About the click sound, better you ignore it. I had this problem for long, until I replaced both front suspensions at 48K kms.

How much your car has run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
temporary solution - open the bulb holders - use hair drier to get rid of the moisture - seal any leaks around the HL cluster glass - make sure the breather pipe (L-shaped thingy) of the HL cluster faces downwards.
There is a very nice DIY writeup by Dr. Pullockaran in Palio Users Group on how to fix the moisture problem in headlamps and also to get it back to its shiny brand new state. You need to buy silicone sealant from the local hardware store.

Last edited by clevermax : 17th May 2010 at 14:07.
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Old 17th May 2010, 14:28   #6
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Black smoke is not engine oil burning so no worries there. Black smoke is usually due to rich mixture.

Do you always run on LPG or do you use Petrol while everyday while starting your car for the day? If extensively used on LPG and when you occasionally shifht to Petrol such issues are common, especially if the vehicle is a bit old.

Check your air filter. Get a throttle body inspection done and clean it if necessary.

Vapor in headlamp assembly can be fixed, remove the light and put it under sun for a day. Usually there are vents on the back side of the headlamp, covered with a rubber pipe, see if this rubber thingy is missing, water gets into the head lamps when these rubber tubes go missing or when the rubber boot around the bulb is not fixed properly.
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Old 17th May 2010, 14:33   #7
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Vapor in headlamp assembly can be fixed, remove the light and put it under sun for a day. Usually there are vents on the back side of the headlamp, covered with a rubber pipe, see if this rubber thingy is missing, water gets into the head lamps when these rubber tubes go missing or when the rubber boot around the bulb is not fixed properly.

Easy to say, but removing Palio's headlamp all by yourself is not very easy - you have to remove the bumper get hold of one of the nuts. I hate such fittings
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Old 17th May 2010, 14:42   #8
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Easy to say, but removing Palio's headlamp all by yourself is not very easy - you have to remove the bumper get hold of one of the nuts. I hate such fittings
me too ... tried it when i changed the right side assembly.. but went back to the mech, coz i felt that job was better left to a professional !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Black smoke is not engine oil burning so no worries there. Black smoke is usually due to rich mixture.

Do you always run on LPG or do you use Petrol while everyday while starting your car for the day? If extensively used on LPG and when you occasionally shifht to Petrol such issues are common, especially if the vehicle is a bit old.

Check your air filter. Get a throttle body inspection done and clean it if necessary.

Vapor in headlamp assembly can be fixed, remove the light and put it under sun for a day. Usually there are vents on the back side of the headlamp, covered with a rubber pipe, see if this rubber thingy is missing, water gets into the head lamps when these rubber tubes go missing or when the rubber boot around the bulb is not fixed properly.
Hmmm its very recently observed.. and i am using LPG only recently. i havent used it for 6 months and started using it since 10 days (after service in Concorde). I usually start it in petrol and shift to LPG in a few mins and use it. Air filter should have been cleaned in the service, and may be the throtle body as well .. anyways thats one input for me to check ! thanks for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
About the click sound, better you ignore it. I had this problem for long, until I replaced both front suspensions at 48K kms.

How much your car has run?



There is a very nice DIY writeup by Dr. Pullockaran in Palio Users Group on how to fix the moisture problem in headlamps and also to get it back to its shiny brand new state. You need to buy silicone sealant from the local hardware store.
Hmmm my suspension is all fine.. thats what concorde guys say. So i ll just get the brake shoe thing checked and may be ignore of the sound persists !
My car has run 54440 kms and is pre NV model !
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Old 17th May 2010, 14:46   #9
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Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
Hmmm my suspension is all fine.. thats what concorde guys say. So i ll just get the brake shoe thing checked and may be ignore of the sound persists !
My car has run 54440 kms and is pre NV model !
I didn't mean that your suspension has to be changed. I think it's fine. I drove the car with that sound thousands of Kms through all possible terrains and no issues ever! In my case, the light knock sound only comes when I negotiate a hump at a higher speed than normal, like 30Kmph or so.
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Old 17th May 2010, 15:26   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kri$hna
I also want to know what can cause this black smoke.. I and my friend suspect that it is Oil burning in the cylinder (a possible piston ring issue?)
Don't think this is due to oil burning. Oil burning is more of white smoke - atleast thats what was my experience with our M800 many years ago.
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Old 17th May 2010, 15:39   #11
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Oil burning will produce white smoke and its hard to miss that smell.

Black smoke is caused by a rich mixture. Check your intake system. Snorkel, air filter and such. This could also be a bad O2 sensor causing the ECU to run the engine rich. I'm not familiar with Palios though.
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Old 17th May 2010, 15:44   #12
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Oil burning will produce white smoke and its hard to miss that smell.

Black smoke is caused by a rich mixture. Check your intake system. Snorkel, air filter and such. This could also be a bad O2 sensor causing the ECU to run the engine rich. I'm not familiar with Palios though.
i just replaced the oxygen sensor a couple of months ago !! not again..

I guess its running rich.. But i have a K&N filter, so i doubt if the car would actually run rich with a k&N stock replacement filter in place !
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Old 17th May 2010, 15:52   #13
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If the filter is clogged or if the air supply is otherwise constricted, it'll run rich.
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Old 17th May 2010, 16:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
I have recently observed that my palio 1.2 (pre-NV, 02 model) is throwing black smoke from the exhaust (even at idling) and this happens mostly when running on Petrol. When it switches to lpg, it runs fine and no black smoke.

The petrol running has this black smoke. The vehicle was recently serviced in Concorde Bangalore (it has done 54,440kms). I am planning a trip to hyd in my palio on 27th of this month. So i am just wondering if this is anything serious to be taken care off immediately or can be done leisurely.

I also want to know what can cause this black smoke.. I and my friend suspect that it is Oil burning in the cylinder (a possible piston ring issue?) If it is this or anything else, what can be the cost of repair and where to get it done in bangalore? Can i travel to hyd and be back with this condition of engine?

Engine Oil: Mobil 1 Fully Synth ( done 4000 kms after changing)
Fuel : Indian Oil petrol or BP LPG
Recent Service: 1 week ago @ Concorde Mysore Road

Niggling Issue: A click sound coming from the left front wheel, apparently from a loose pin/break shoe/housing which vibrates when run over a pot hole or dug-in speed breaker. Suspension is absolutely fine, but Concorde says, it is the pin in brake caliper which is causing this click sound. I also want to know if there can be a fix for this sound issue. Concorde says it will cost 4500 to change the caliper housing and thts how we an fix it... is der a cheaper alternative ? (braking is fine, suspension is good.. just the click sound that bothers me!!) ... now this coupled with the black smoke, i dono whats happening

universal problem: Vapour in the left headlight assembly.. i dont know if it will even be fixed.. but i am not changing the assembly anytime soon !!

Plz help me in diagnosing the right issues and fixing them... more importantly can do a long trip in this baby this month ?


Usually my mechanic convey that as soon the smoke turns hard black its time up for a oil change. Check up the clogged air filter.
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Old 17th May 2010, 23:30   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
i just replaced the oxygen sensor a couple of months ago !! not again..

I guess its running rich.. But i have a K&N filter, so i doubt if the car would actually run rich with a k&N stock replacement filter in place !
A K&N is not a nice thing to have in dusty places like Blr...
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