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Old 21st May 2010, 18:10   #16
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Bad luck continues for me, its been a sad day.
My net conked out last night I could not update you all.
Im back home with my car now.

I asked some people around and everyone advised me not to move the car. So the car was left there all night unattended 2Km away from home.

I couldn't sleep properly last night. I was worried about the car getting stolen but I kept reassuring myself, no one will want to steal a broken down esteem. But that worry was enough to keep me up tossing and turning like the sea.

Today morning I went and took a look.
There was no engine oil at all! The oil has leaked into the rad and else where.
The rad was dry and filled with the oil+coolant+water. (the coffee mud like stuff)

Ran to a bunk got some engine oil (Shell 20W-50) 3L also refilled water into the rad.
Called 2 friends and we pushed the car back home. Now the car is safe in my house.

I also called my local mech he is on his way here. He was supposed to be here by 1PM. He hasn't shown up so far.
Now I'm thinking if he does show up I will send him back and call pratham motors?


SirAlec
The car was serviced just 1500KM before this. with Engine oil change and everything else done up at MASS!! This was 2 months ago.
The engine temperature gauge was at the half way mark when she blew.
There was no warning lights nothing.

There was enough coolant as I had checked this 3 weeks ago while getting the car washed.
I'm not sure about the oil. Maybe MASS forgot to fill in the oil?

I can also see some tubes leaking coolant+ the coffee like stuff ! looks pretty bad

This has been our first break down with this car! This car has never before broken down on us.

Should do I get this does at MASS or outside? Can anyone recommend someone good and reasonable? More importantly, will the car be reliable as after the repairs?

Last edited by Captain Slow : 21st May 2010 at 18:16.
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Old 21st May 2010, 18:50   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
The first picture is of the front bumper. The stuff on it is from the reservoir and the radiator. Its sticky and really thick! Looks like oil+ with coolant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooza View Post
Possible sequence of events :
Possibility 1 : The coolant level (or engine oil level) was already low. The engine heats up excessively, and the head gasket fails / melts
Possibility 2 : The head gasket was nearing the end of its life. It fails first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
There can be many combination of reasons. Two of them has already been mentioned by you. Other ones may be failure of thermostat valve. Leakage or breakage hoses
But before your car reaches this state, the temp needle, if its working will definitely show this on the cluster. Many people fail to check that while driving.
I agree with Sir Alec - it could be a combination of causes.

Captain Slow, how old is your car? Creeping problems probably didn't catch your attention - like your car running hot; slowly the coolant and oil (leakage due to worn gasket) got mixed - this mixture now gets re-circulated in the engine / radiator! You car must have given warning / telltale signs, but must have been overlooked.

Almost similar thing happened to my friends M800 - luckily for him, the heat caused a small hole in the coolant reservoir early on. We were just trying to find out how the stain had appeared in the engine bay and noticed the empty coolant. When we tried to pour water in it, a thin stream of dark liquid flowed out! Opened the radiator cap and found dirty water inside.

He had to replace the coolant reservoir and head-gasket, and the car was running fine. However, the job took more than a couple of days as the engine (head) had to be opened. I think he had a radiator and engine flush also done. If it is a similar problem then probably same steps have to be carried out - and since you saw leakage, get all the hoses checked. The chances of your car running without oil for 1500 kms seems pretty remote.

No point in crying over spilled milk! And I don't see why your car should be normal again - if it has served you well so far.
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Old 21st May 2010, 20:05   #18
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And more bad news!

finally the mech comes and he confirms what most of you already said! Head gasket is gone. He tells me that the cars needs to be towed back to his work shop.
They need to open up the engine and check everything else.
SirAlec
You were right all along

vrprabhu
The car is about 15-16 years old I think. It was from the first batch of esteems with the 1.3L to hit the road.

Now do I get this does at MASS or outside? Can anyone recommend someone good and reasonable?

Last edited by Captain Slow : 21st May 2010 at 20:07.
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Old 21st May 2010, 21:02   #19
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Have him check the head for warpage and face it if necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
Here are the parts list
1. Head Gasket
2. timming belt
3. Valve set along with springs (springs are optional.
Assuming his timing belt is not broken, why the valves+belt?

Quote:
The car was serviced just 1500KM before this. with Engine oil change and everything else done up at MASS!! This was 2 months ago.
The engine temperature gauge was at the half way mark when she blew.
There was no warning lights nothing.

There was enough coolant as I had checked this 3 weeks ago while getting the car washed.
I'm not sure about the oil. Maybe MASS forgot to fill in the oil?
Your radiator is probably clogged and not doing its job. Temp needle creeping up over the years has led you to believe things are OK.

Last edited by Mpower : 21st May 2010 at 21:04.
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Old 21st May 2010, 21:49   #20
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Hi Captain Slow,

The same situation happened once with my x- M800 ( Head Gasket developed a crack and engine oil + coolant + water got mixed) . Hope your local mechanic is good 'cause our local mechanic (who was always around to help if something went wrong) screwed up big time to get the job done correctly.

So, Finally went to M.A.S.S and got it rectified. They might be expensive by a couple of thousands but they do the job right. If not, you can tell them till they get it right. Also, they have better equipment + tools than a local mechanic. If possible, take a car savvy Team -BHPian.

My advice: Go to M.A.S.S and fix it.

Yes, the car will be as good as new if the job is done right. Everytime you get it serviced, tell the car tech to check everything from wiring, sounds to leakages etc.

Regards,
Indy
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Old 21st May 2010, 23:38   #21
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Ouch seems like head gasket was blown for a while now, do a complete check up and overhaul at a competent MASS. Since you are opening up thoroughly check all gaskets, oil seals, bearings etc. Worth spending the extra few thousands for peace of mind and trouble free running.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 00:41   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Have him check the head for warpage and face it if necessary.

Assuming his timing belt is not broken, why the valves+belt?

Your radiator is probably clogged and not doing its job. Temp needle creeping up over the years has led you to believe things are OK.
with that much heat with an outcome of that kinda mixture, i would have definitely check the belt too. because the belt is the thingy that is in constant tension with the below (block part) and top (head part). Think of it this way If a milk is boiling put a lid on the utensil the boiling milk will force open the lid. Same goes with the head job too. Also since he will be opening half of the engine, he can do this job too at the same labour cost.

He will have a much smother car when the new head is done.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 02:00   #23
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Since you're in Bangalore, let me strongly recommend 'Saraswati Auto Garage'.
They are quite familiar with the members on here.
And suzukis are their bread and butter.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 02:32   #24
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Thanks for the reply and suggestions everyone! after reading your reassuring posts I'm somewhat happy that team-bhp is here to help me. Thank you soo much. Hopefully the car will start running again.
This time you can expect a proper report on what and how it was done!

@ yes nitrous me from Bangalore.
Can you tell me where is Saraswati Auto Garage located?

I would need to tow the car. I called up some towing guys from the yellow pages their rates were atrocious! One of the numbers I called wanted 1.5k to tow the car for 5-7KM.

I was thinking of giving the car to Solar Automobiles? This is a bit far for me.

The closest place is Nexus at New BEL Road. I have never been to nexus but bhpian rjstyles69 seems to be happy with them.

Jaggu
Have you ever given your mighty DDIS to nexus?

Last edited by Captain Slow : 22nd May 2010 at 02:34.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 03:44   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
And more bad news!

finally the mech comes and he confirms what most of you already said! Head gasket is gone. He tells me that the cars needs to be towed back to his work shop.
They need to open up the engine and check everything else.
SirAlec
You were right all along

vrprabhu
The car is about 15-16 years old I think. It was from the first batch of esteems with the 1.3L to hit the road.

Now do I get this does at MASS or outside? Can anyone recommend someone good and reasonable?
When they open it up, ask them to remove the thermostat valve that prevents coolant from circulating until engine has reached operating temp. This is prone to rusting closed and unless you drive in a place with near zero temps, you can safely get rid of it. Usually the mechs at the A.S.S will inform you of it, but tell them anyway.

Get it done at a MASS. It's not worth the headache if they don't get it done right. Plus, you can be sure that they are using MGP.

Be thankful that you only blew the headgasket. It could have been much worse if the pistons had seized and scratched the cylinder walls. That would mean all-new block because it's the G13B aluminium engine.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 07:12   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsag12 View Post
Have a look at the pic attached. If you have some knowledge about the car's engine parts then you figure out the answer to your question. Or else read the second part
A headgasket is a major sealing component in the car's engine which seals the gap between the engine(cylinder) head( place where the valves are located, the top most layer of engine just after the head cover) and engine block (the lower part of engine in which the pistons move).
Hope your doubts are somewhat clear.
Got it, so it's basically just that paperlike material, that machanics put some sort of red sealent glue while joining the head and buttom together.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 07:22   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
The engine temperature gauge was at the half way mark when she blew.
There was no warning lights nothing
@Captain Slow, since the engine temperature gauge was at halfway mark when the problem happened (I assume the reading on the gauge been this way right from the time the car was new), hopefully the damage may not be much, as the engine did not overheat, so it must be just the head gasket that failed.

Again, this is provided that the temperature gauge was working properly !
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Old 22nd May 2010, 08:01   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
Got it, so it's basically just that paperlike material, that machanics put some sort of red sealent glue while joining the head and buttom together.
I don't want to go off topic so have PMed you regarding your query. Do check the inbox.
OR have a look at this. http://www.reinz.de/pictures/39-0012...-CHG-low-e.pdf

Last edited by samsag12 : 22nd May 2010 at 08:08.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 11:54   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
vrprabhu
The car is about 15-16 years old I think. It was from the first batch of esteems with the 1.3L to hit the road.
15 years old? How many kms on the odo?

Let me get a little OT here - don't know whether your car will pass the BSIV norms. It is actually due for fitness certification if it is 15 years old - don't know how people in Bangalore RTO go about it.

Unless you are sentimentally attached to the car, I would suggest that you get it back to running condition and trade it for a new one - I know many here won't like my suggestion, but opening the head of a 15 year old engine warrants a thorough check of the block, piston, valves, oil lines, hoses, belts et al - and it has to be a carburetor version - so after getting the work done, the timing has to be set and you have to take it easy for the initial 1000 odd kms; thereafter, go for another check up replace the oil and be on the look out to ensure that all is hunky-dory. I am painting a grim picture here, but I believe it is better to be safe than sorry....

Whereas a new car will give you a peace of mind - which can never be equated in terms of money
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Old 22nd May 2010, 12:58   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
Got it, so it's basically just that paperlike material, that machanics put some sort of red sealent glue while joining the head and buttom together.
Its the gasket. And glue is liquid gasket maker. Best ones are from Loctite. I guess its Loctite 596

For reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_gasket

Last edited by SirAlec : 22nd May 2010 at 13:00.
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