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Old 4th June 2010, 16:35   #16
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@Gansan from what I know / heard Indian manufacturers fill engine with oil and run them on test bed so this oil seal bedding issue during initial period does not exists , Secondly yours is a petrol car without turbo which is very frugal and does not churn out as much power as an Audi so Oil burn will also be less.

I have a Desi turbo Diesel Safari which I often take up to 160 Km/hr on open highway and 120-130 quite regularly but I did not observe dip in oil level.

But anyway for Skoda/ audi or others I feel 500ml to 1 Liter oil per 1000 KM looks excessive , Wouldn't it be more prudent for them to use thicker normal mineral oil and reduce frequency of Change to 10-15 K KM for Indian conditions ?

whatever Air filter you use dirt will be sucked in and you can not keep same oil for more then 1 year or 15K Km IMHO.
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Old 4th June 2010, 17:11   #17
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Very interesting discussion. Sorry for breaking in to this rarefied club, but I have a related query about my Alto. It is the very opposite of what is discussed here. I change the oil every 6 months, though the distance covered during this period is just 2500 KM. Throughout this duration the oil level remains virtually unchanged, though the oil color starts to become brownish after the first 1000 KM. Is this also not abnormal? Should there not be at least some (measurable) consumption of oil for this distance?

@ Speeding@160mph

I thought a quart means 250 ML?
As far as I know the oil is used by the engine for lube. The fuel and the oil actually burn at different temperature - the oil being higher. So during a "normal" combustion cycle the fuel burns, the oil lubes and returns to the oil chamber and keeps circulating. As the oil is subject to high temperature in the cylinders, over time it tends to break down, its viscosity reduces (becomes brown - black - thin & runny- reduced effectiveness). During all this circulation and lubrication there may be a loss which may have to be topped up (rarely). But it should never go down below the min mark in the dipstick(between service periods). I see in some above posts that the consumption is so high that in a year all the oil will be "consumed". And if that much oil is burnt (about 7 liters in an Audi ?) you will leave a black smoke trail as you drive and most certainly your car will fail the pollution tests. I do not believe in the notion that you will burn "more" oil if you drive fast. In fact you should not burn oil at all - what you will burn is the fuel.

Even if the oil is standing (car in garage), its molecular structure may be compromised with age, as with its exposure to high temperature. The manufacturer specifies the distance and the time period (which ever come first) for oil change. e.g. for Mobil 1 in Mercs it is 1 year or 10k km.

For the entire time I have owned cars (various Maruti models, Honda City & Accord, Mercedes C & E) I have never had occasions where the car is "consuming" oil (with or without Turbo, the E has twin turbo!!). I have changed oil only during service - never having to top up in between.

Rgds
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Old 8th June 2010, 01:05   #18
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What happened I am eagerly waiting for the news after your Saturday checkup ?
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Old 26th July 2011, 18:23   #19
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

I have a Honda Legend 3.7 v6

I never bothered checking the dip stick and learnt that it had burned all 4 liters of engine oil the warning lights came on (10w30)

The place where I bought oil had a sales guy who cautioned me and told me my engine was gone the pistons would have swollen by now and in short all was lost. The same guy could not close my engine bonnet properly.

However, when i took it to Honda they told me it is normal and because you did 3000kms highway driving that chews up oil.

Lessons I learnt:

If you have a Turbo/Vtec engine its just silly to think you dont need to check fluids for your car. In my case its SOHC VTEC even more demanding.

Now I top it with synthetic blend engine oil whenever needed about 500ml to 1 litre every 2500 kms. Oil change every 5000kms.

Hope this helps.
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Old 26th July 2011, 18:38   #20
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

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Originally Posted by Speeding@160mph View Post
I'm more than a little concerned about this since I do recall a few Skoda/VW owners complain about engine oil consumption recently...

My A4 2.0 TFSI is at 2500km in about 2 months - has already been 'topped up' with 1 liter of engine oil 3 weeks ago and today just asked for another top-up. This can't be normal!

I know its a turbo and I have been driving with somewhat of a lead-foot but this is ridiculous!

Anybody with similar experiences? Is this par for the course or is there improvement as the miles pile on?
Yes, this can be considered as genuine. You are in running-in period, so this is natural. You might see a difference when your Audi clocks above 10,000Km. The doubt can trigger unless there is lots of white smoke from exaust during normal run or oil leakage on the engine head, or if you find some traces of oil spill in your radiator. But your car is new, and there cannot be a point of concern and if it is then it is rarest case for German Engineering.

Try synthetic oil instead of mineral oil.

Last edited by yogeshnaik : 26th July 2011 at 18:40.
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Old 26th July 2011, 18:42   #21
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhijat View Post
I have a Honda Legend 3.7 v6


However, when i took it to Honda they told me it is normal and because you did 3000kms highway driving that chews up oil.

Lessons I learnt:

If you have a Turbo/Vtec engine its just silly to think you dont need to check fluids for your car. In my case its SOHC VTEC even more demanding.
I am not sure about this.

My Skoda Laura 1.8 Tsi required an early top-up when it had done @3000KM. After that, it did not require any top-up until it was serviced at around @12000 KM.

So one possibility is the factory "short-fills" the engine oil before shipping the car(?)
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Old 26th July 2011, 20:49   #22
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I am not sure about this.

My Skoda Laura 1.8 Tsi required an early top-up when it had done @3000KM. After that, it did not require any top-up until it was serviced at around @12000 KM.

So one possibility is the factory "short-fills" the engine oil before shipping the car(?)

I remember reading elsewhere on the forum that VW group TSI engines tend to consume some engine oil in the first few 1000 kms or running. I was advised by Vinayak Skoda that the Engine oil warning lamp will light up anywhere between the first 2000 to 5000 kms. And when that does was advised to top up with Shell HL 5w40. As a result I have regularly checked the oil level on my Laura TSI and at about 2,500 Kms found the oil level to be close to min. I did not wait for the warning light to light up and topped up about 750 ml of synthetic oil.

I don't think the factory short fills the oil, since the oil level was at max when the car was brought home. After the top up the oil is back at the same level.
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Old 27th July 2011, 14:02   #23
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
I remember reading elsewhere on the forum that VW group TSI engines tend to consume some engine oil in the first few 1000 kms or running. I was advised by Vinayak Skoda that the Engine oil warning lamp will light up anywhere between the first 2000 to 5000 kms. And when that does was advised to top up with Shell HL 5w40. As a result I have regularly checked the oil level on my Laura TSI and at about 2,500 Kms found the oil level to be close to min. I did not wait for the warning light to light up and topped up about 750 ml of synthetic oil.

I don't think the factory short fills the oil, since the oil level was at max when the car was brought home. After the top up the oil is back at the same level.
So what's the techincal reason for burning oil only in first few thousand KMs? And then why does the oil consumption stop/reduce dramatically?

I am yet to come across a person who really "knows".
All internet forums that I have come across are purely speculative.
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Old 27th July 2011, 14:47   #24
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
So what's the techincal reason for burning oil only in first few thousand KMs? And then why does the oil consumption stop/reduce dramatically?

I am yet to come across a person who really "knows".
All internet forums that I have come across are purely speculative.
Don't know the real reason for this. The phenomenon seems to be common enough to be termed as 'normal'. Looks like the dealers have realised this, and in order to avoid customers coming to them for the oil top up, they are asking the owners to do it themselves.

My guess is, when the engine is new there is more friction and hence the lubrication is working overtime. After running in, the moving parts settle down in their groove and hence consume less oil.
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Old 30th November 2011, 14:35   #25
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Default re: Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

Audi USA issues TSB for Oil consumption in 2L Turbo Engines, should be gasoline variants since its USA.

" In T.S.B. 101103 issued on Nov. 3, Audi said that 2009-11 A4, A5, A5 Cabriolet and Q5 models with a 2-liter turbocharged engine should get a new crankcase pressure-regulating valve.
Audi told dealership service departments to install the valve if a customer complained about oil use. The front crankshaft seal will also need to be replaced when the valve is installed"

Source : http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/au...emc=wheelsema4
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Old 8th June 2017, 17:49   #26
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Default Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Hi,

I have a Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI and a Skoda Rapid too. While I have been extremely happy with the Rapid, the oil consumption in my Laura has been alarmingly high and right from the very beginning I have been complaining to the JMD Skoda Nerul about the excessive oil consumption. Each time the vehicle was sent to them while the vehicle was under warranty, they sent the car back saying that 1 litre oil has been topped up and it is normal for such heavy oil consumption in TSI engines. I kept on arguing that since such "frequent oil topups do not have a mention in the manual book", it clearly means that the engine is marred with poor workmanship, design flaw and inferior performance.

On going thru the records I had, I also found out that just between the 1st and the 2nd service, I had sent the vehicle twice for oil topups. Which means, 6 litres of OIL in just 5 months. Now what has happened during this is while the oil has been topped up many times after this too, (generally 2/3 months prior to scheduled service) once or twice it happened that the service adviser asked me if I wanted to change the oil. I asked him for his advise to which he said that since the top up has been done very recently, no need to change the oil. I happily agreed to this and did not really bother. But, little did I know that while I worked on his suggestions, he has entered in his system that customer approval is not given (sic)

All this while Skoda India said that there is no problem with the engine and everything is fine. Alongside this, they also kept my vehicle under observations with them twice for 6-8 days each time and made me replace certain parts saying that those part were damaged. Now, suddenly they have acknowledged the problem in writing, but say that since I have skipped 2 services (at a much later stage after the problem was reported imm. after the first service) and since the vehicle is NOT under warranty, it will be a charged procedure. My argument with them is warranty or no warranty, service or no service - the vehicle has been deviating from its normal functioning since day 1, ever since the vehicle was bought. All this time they used to say that everything is normal and now suddenly they say that there is a problem and I will have to PAY for it.

So, I am planning to file a legal suit against Skoda India for giving me a faulty vehicle whose engine is marred with poor design and poor workmanship. I have all the evidences in place which suggests that the engine was defective right from the beginning...

I need your feedback on this guys…

Many thanks.
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Old 8th June 2017, 18:05   #27
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

You should give it a shot as our legal system is not really people friendly but more like filled with interpretation based loop holes. The hassle will be long but Skoda knows their reputation when it comes to handling customers and their escalation is pretty much down the drains.

If you have the energy, time and most importantly the money to fight it legally you should do it.

Start producing the service records and every other information you have shared and have it in proof right here and make a thread of what you went through in detail and hope you get justice like Harish.
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Old 8th June 2017, 20:29   #28
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

I found this in the Skoda website.

Information on Ombudsman.35460cd7a31f1eb28665a582cf6691a7.pdf

Not sure if it helps but give it a shot. Also, make this public. Social media is a powerful tool. But please use it responsibly i.e. no name calling, slang etc. when you are involved in this matter.

Prior to going public, hope you have all your records and evidences in order. Documentation is your friend. If you don't, might as well just forget your claim. "He said / she said" doesn't work when it comes to verifying the truth. Also, please record a chronology of events that will help anyone who's freshly getting involved in this to understand the problem quickly.

Good luck. Sad to hear your situation.
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Old 8th June 2017, 20:58   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbotechnixx View Post
the oil consumption in my Laura has been alarmingly high and right from the very beginning I have been complaining to the JMD Skoda Nerul about the excessive oil consumption. Each time the vehicle was sent to them while the vehicle was under warranty, they sent the car back saying that 1 litre oil has been topped up and it is normal for such heavy oil consumption in TSI engines. I kept on arguing that since such "frequent oil topups do not have a mention in the manual book", it clearly means that the engine is marred with poor workmanship, design flaw and inferior performance.

All this time they used to say that everything is normal and now suddenly they say that there is a problem and I will have to PAY for it.

So, I am planning to file a legal suit
If I was you, the first thing I would have done when the issue started is to ask them to give in writing on their company letterhead everytime when they topped up oil quoting the process and saying that they certify that all is well and it is a standard procedure. That makes most of these abominable specimens snap out of their slumber and get in line and get real. Else you have even more solid proof of their escapades ready.

Further, consider what you would need in order to go ahead with your legal actions:

1) Determination to see this through and get the stooges to make it right.

2) Time and energy to fight to the finish

3) Money

4) Prepare to buy another car, of course of another, better, more truthful brand in case you sense things will go on for long. Why should you go carless because of all this. You can later sell it considering these kind of cases tend to take couple of years and so you will find good use of the car. Maybe an Innova Crysta would do well given the standard of car you seem to like or maybe a cheaper one like EcoSport or Honda City ZX just to tide through the bad times . Not many good D segmenters around.

4) Tell them to give you samples of most fluids mainly Engine Oil, Fuel, etc which is currently in your car taken in front of you to keep with you just in case they don't fudge up things later and then put the blame on you. These things are quite common these days and when those stooges don't get any other excuse they quote rubbish like "you used Adulterated Fuel" and other such crap. This is very important. How you get this done, you have to think. But it's crucial.

That's all I could think of. Best of luck. Ideally you shouldn't be taking things lying down. Go get 'em bhpian!
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Old 8th June 2017, 22:10   #30
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

I don't think this is a good idea for multiple reasons.

1) Skoda have mentioned in the owners manual that 1l/1000 km (if I remember right) is normal, and it can be higher under heavy load driving conditions. You would need to demonstrate that your consumption was materially higher than that to have a chance to win
2) your car is an old one - out of warranty. If you had a problem, you should have claimed earlier
3) You have missed services recommended in the manual, based on a verbal conversation with an advisor

Feel free to try but it would most likely be a waste of time and money. If you are so unhappy with the car, just sell and move on.
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