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Old 8th June 2017, 22:31   #31
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

My Superb with the 1.8 tsi needs an oil topup of 1 litre every 3000-4000 km. So some indication on the kilometres done by you between oil topups would be useful information.
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Old 8th June 2017, 22:49   #32
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A few questions/clarifications.

How old is the car?
Which issue has Skoda acknowledged? only the higher oil consumption? Or something else as well?
Did they propose a solution?

I just bought a 1.8 tsi Laura a week back and you have given me jitters :-)

Edit: the manual says 0.5l per 1000 km

Last edited by vinodh_eee : 8th June 2017 at 22:51.
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Old 9th June 2017, 00:26   #33
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You may consider officially writing to Skoda and point out your concerns by summarising the true and correct chronology of events. You may also mention gist of telephonic conversion had with SA and advice given. Keep bills and documents in support of your contention intact. Take independent views/ opinions of SA from other Skoda authorised service centers. Express your disappointment on the vehicle and that it was unexpected considering your satisfactory experience with Rapid. A higher segment was expected to live up to their brand and customer satisfaction but unfortunately it proved otherwise. You may ask them to suggest remedial action before you consider to resort to appropriate legal remedies. While the legal system in our country is tardy and cumbersome but if you have your documents and stand well substantiated I believe the Consumer Forum being a consumer friendly forum is a comparatively fast track forum to get desired relief. Many a times an email to the Company does the job with the mere threat of taking them to Court so as to protect their market repute.

Incidentally, my cousin had bought one Laura a particular evening and the next morning it refused to start. He fought with the dealer to get refund of his money and returned his car the same day and transferred the loan to Honda and bought a Honda City instead.

While I do not say that it is common but there has been disappointing experiences and it is worthwhile to stand up for your rights which in the longer run sets a benchmark and the company will think twice before playing around with customers faced with similar situations.

Let me know in case you need any assistance/ help.
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Old 9th June 2017, 00:44   #34
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Like other 1.8T owners have mentioned above - the engine does need more than 'normal' engine oil. My Laura 1.8TSI also needs 1L every 2-3k kms. Even when I use fully synthetic oil.

My Octy vRS never needed that though.

I havent looked at the manual but check yours. If that says that the engine may need oil topups between servicing then your court case may not legs.
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Old 9th June 2017, 01:02   #35
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
I don't think this is a good idea for multiple reasons.

1) Skoda have mentioned in the owners manual that 1l/1000 km (if I remember right) is normal, and it can be higher under heavy load driving conditions. You would need to demonstrate that your consumption was materially higher than that to have a chance to win
2) your car is an old one - out of warranty. If you had a problem, you should have claimed earlier
3) You have missed services recommended in the manual, based on a verbal conversation with an advisor

Feel free to try but it would most likely be a waste of time and money. If you are so unhappy with the car, just sell and move on.
Now I don't have any experience with Skoda's or the 1.8 TSI, but these are my thoughts exactly.

If you want to have any hope of winning the case you should have actual records of how much oil your car is actually using against what the recommended is and how much the difference actually is. Given that your car is now older and out of warranty, your results are bound to be skewed. Add to that the fact that even though you told them you're having issues; they have plausible deniability since you never acted on it an used your warranty or took anything in writing from them.

Now assuming you can manage all of the above, the second question is of time and money. My suggestion would be if you don't want to waste either time or money, sell your Skoda, use the money you'd put into fighting the case and get yourself a brand new ride. In the scheme of things, you'll save your time and buy peace of mind.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Last edited by Porcupine : 9th June 2017 at 01:25.
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Old 9th June 2017, 01:21   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbotechnixx View Post
Hi,

I have a Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI.

Each time the vehicle was sent to them while the vehicle was under warranty, they sent the car back saying that 1 litre oil has been topped up and it is normal for such heavy oil consumption in TSI engines.

On going thru the records I had, I also found out that just between the 1st and the 2nd service, I had sent the vehicle twice for oil topups. Which means, 6 litres of OIL in just 5 months. Now what has happened during this is while the oil has been topped up many times after this too, (generally 2/3 months prior to scheduled service) once or twice it happened that the service adviser asked me if I wanted to change the oil. I asked him for his advise to which he said that since the top up has been done very recently, no need to change the oil. I happily agreed to this and did not really bother. But, little did I know that while I worked on his suggestions, he has entered in his system that customer approval is not given (sic)






Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
1) Skoda have mentioned in the owners manual that 1l/1000 km (if I remember right) is normal, and it can be higher under heavy load driving conditions.






Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-cobra View Post
My Superb with the 1.8 tsi needs an oil topup of 1 litre every 3000-4000 km. So some indication on the kilometres done by you between oil topups would be useful information.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesc View Post
Like other 1.8T owners have mentioned above - the engine does need more than 'normal' engine oil. My Laura 1.8TSI also needs 1L every 2-3k kms. Even when I use fully synthetic oil.
Wow. In case you guys didn't notice, that's four people on a single day in a single thread claiming/acknowledging that a 4-cylinder engine(TSi in this case), does in fact "consume"(dunno in what way it does that)an average of half a liter to a full liter of oil in 1000-3000 kilometers! It's a first time I've ever heard this and it being normal. From 4 people.

Ok, all the TSi and all the mumbo jumbo may have surprises about small nitty gritty in their way of working but this is something else. And surprisingly how did nobody ever think of even asking the Skoda chaps as to where does this oil go and vanish to in the engine? By what process? I'm sure it's not part of the combustion process like the 2-strokes, or you would have had oil leaking out of all the TSi exhaust pipes. And it that case too it would have eaten more than 1 liter. Am I missing something here? So what is it?

Also, in Turbotechnix's second paragraph (in first post), the oil topups chronology is a bit confusing. Were they all topups or some were oil changes? Or all were complete oil changes? The two mean different things. Or does Skoda equate topups to be equal to o changes? That part is kinda shady.

Lots of shadows around here.....

Last edited by pixantz : 9th June 2017 at 01:23.
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Old 9th June 2017, 02:22   #37
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
It's a first time I've ever heard this and it being normal.
I certainly wasnt implying that its normal. A much higher than normal percentage of VAGs 1.8T and 2.0T engines consume excessive oil. Doesnt matter if you have an Audi or Skoda or VW or where you are located. Just Google it and forums all around the world are full of threads.

The simple truth is that the engine components are faulty. Depending on the competence of the dealership, state of the laws where you live and the state of your engine the fix can range anywhere from an ECU update to piston/piston rings replacement to full engine replacement. Knowing the state of affairs in our country I feel this case - although completely merited - wont get anywhere. If VW can get away with such short DSG warranties in our country then this can easily be brushed under the carpet.

Last edited by Cesc : 9th June 2017 at 02:39.
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Old 9th June 2017, 04:37   #38
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

This is unfortunately a poor representation of the overall situation that provides glimpses of the problem with no clear complete picture. If you are asking for advice, it might be better to first give the complete picture.

- How old is the car? How much is the current odometer at? What is the general type of usage (city vs highway riding)?

- How many services has it undergone (against the expected rate of 1 servicing per year or 15,000 kms)

- Which servicing schedules were missed out? Do share the servicing schedule followed throughout the ownership.

- Where there more oil top-ups done after the 2nd servicing? If it is indeed a faulty engine with high oil consumption, you should have experienced similar extra oil consumption in the later years of usage, no? What were the actual amount of top-ups done?

- When and why did you report a problem to Skoda? And what is the 'problem' that you have highlighted and which they have now agreed to?

- What all parts were changed during your ownership? Do you see any repetition of specific parts that were replaced more than once?


There are other questions that can be asked, but the above might help in getting a clearer picture to the forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbotechnixx View Post
Hi,

I have all the evidences in place which suggests that the engine was defective right from the beginning...

I need your feedback on this guys…

Many thanks.
Quote:
On going thru the records I had, I also found out that just between the 1st and the 2nd service, I had sent the vehicle twice for oil topups. Which means, 6 litres of OIL in just 5 months. Now what has happened during this is while the oil has been topped up many times after this too, (generally 2/3 months prior to scheduled service) once or twice it happened that the service adviser asked me if I wanted to change the oil.
Most service centers mention the actual amount of oil top-up that was done - did they actually mention 6L of oils consumed combined across both the oil top-ups in your service records?

Last edited by ninjatalli : 9th June 2017 at 04:52.
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Old 9th June 2017, 08:29   #39
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
Wow. In case you guys didn't notice, that's four people on a single day in a single thread claiming/acknowledging that a 4-cylinder engine(TSi in this case), does in fact "consume"(dunno in what way it does that)an average of half a liter to a full liter of oil in 1000-3000 kilometers! It's a first time I've ever heard this and it being normal. From 4 people.
Whatever be normal or abnormal but if Skoda has actually mentioned the same in the owner's manual then I don't think much can be done legally unless the consumption is considerably higher.
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Old 9th June 2017, 09:33   #40
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It seems like it is JMD that has done you wrong here my friend. They kept downplaying excessive oil consumption to you during the warranty period and once it was over, they brought up the matter.

Also I hope you have the documents or the bills to prove that the dealership kept recommending frequent engine oil top up because they could deny everything and say it was you who asked for oil top up. From what you've said, it seems like they infact have proof of you refusing an oil change during a schedule service since an oil top up was done recently.

As a fellow TSi owner, I think you do need to mention how much you were travelling between each service/ oil top up for any of it to make sense. I recently did an oil change on my car (last service was 8,000 kms / 1 year and 3 months ago). Before changing, I did use the oil dip stick to measure the oil level and it wasn't any lower than where it was supposed to be at.
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Old 9th June 2017, 09:44   #41
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

As a lawyer (before you file anything, and for the clarity of all concerned) i ask you to let us know the below to help guide you better:

1. When did you purchase the car? Extended warranty taken?
2. Share your entire service schedule with works done
3. When was the last service done?
4. How is there 6l of oil (change/top up) between the first 2 services. Not clear.
5. What all services were skipped and why?
6. When was the last communication with Skoda? From a cause of action and limitation perspective this becomes critical
7. Have you read the manual?

You may very well threaten them with a law suit and indeed file one too- but bear in mind a few things
- its expensive
- consumer courts are over burdened and dates given are long
- appellate procedure takes time lines beyond a decade

Rohan
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Old 9th June 2017, 09:47   #42
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbotechnixx View Post
Now what has happened during this is while the oil has been topped up many times after this too, (generally 2/3 months prior to scheduled service) once or twice it happened that the service adviser asked me if I wanted to change the oil. I asked him for his advise to which he said that since the top up has been done very recently, no need to change the oil. I happily agreed to this and did not really bother. But, little did I know that while I worked on his suggestions, he has entered in his system that customer approval is not given (sic).

This is the part where Skoda has played dirty, nevermind the technicalities. You need to pull them up on this and I understand that its not going to lead to a satisfactory result either way. If you take the company up on this they'll play the ignorance card and say what their service advisor wants them to say and the courts.. well its anyone's guess.

As others have said, if you have the time.. you can consider the legal route but the best way is to hope for all misunderstandings to get settled mutually with the company though the chances of that happening (which would result in them admitting to a mistake) is almost nil. Why not write a long, descriptive email of the same to the company, it is your right to do so being a customer of 2 Skoda vehicles combined costing almost Rs.30L.
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Old 9th June 2017, 10:52   #43
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Buddy, you should be glad the only issues you have faced are excess oil consumption

On a more serious note - I think most here are well aware, if you have a 1.8 tsi you need an extra litre of engine oil in the boot at all times. Its just a known issue with this engine, and you can see all over the internet it happens everywhere. So I don't think you have a faulty car.

I had a VRS with the same engine, and the car did drink a litre of oil sometimes once or twice in between scheduled services.

I have observed the oil consumption goes up when driving in stop and go traffic, and even more so in the summer when the ambient temperatures are high.

Rather than trying to file a case, when the manual mentions 1l of oil per 2000kms in normal, go out and get a tune for your car and forget all about this.
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:08   #44
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- Close to about 8 years old

- 5 services out of 7.

- 3rd Service and the 7th Service..that is because mileage was less and oil was topped up just a month before the actual service due. I had asked the advisor about it and he said chalega service nahi kiya to.

- Yes, oil topups done every 2000-3000 kms. It has happened every year.

- Each time I went to Skoda for service, I have mentioned them about such excessive oil consumption. They kept sending the vehicle back saying that it was normal. I have been reporting this problem since the second service.

- They replaced the Idler Bearing and once they replaced the belt. They said that this would solve the problem.


-First time 1 litre, second time 1 litre and when the 2nd service was due the low oil indicator was already glowing. There was a mistake in my statement. I meant to say " 3 litres of oil in just 6000 kms" If I were to go by their service schedule which is service every 15k kms, I would have had to top up twice the amount of oil which is more than 6 litres. Sorry for my wrong statement. I overlooked it.

I have already written to them. I have already sent a representation letter to the MD in India, the Ethics committee & the Chairperson sitting in Czech Republic. I got a reply from the Chairperson in Czeck Republic which says that the India counterpart shall contact me. Sadly, nobody from the Indian counterpart has contacted me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
Also, in Turbotechnix's second paragraph (in first post), the oil topups chronology is a bit confusing. Were they all topups or some were oil changes? Or all were complete oil changes? The two mean different things. Or does Skoda equate topups to be equal to o changes? That part is kinda shady.
Sorry, I may have overlooked this - This is what I meant:

" 3 litres of oil in just 6000 kms" If I were to go by their service schedule which is service every 15k kms, I would have had to top up twice the amount of oil which is more than 6 litres. Sorry for my wrong statement. I overlooked it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanDheman View Post
As a lawyer (before you file anything, and for the clarity of all concerned) i ask you to let us know the below to help guide you better:
Hi..Thanks for your inputs. My reply to your queries:

1. When did you purchase the car? Extended warranty taken? - Vehicle purchased in 2009. Though I owned the vehicle right from day 1, legally I got my ownership transferred in Jan- Feb 2013. There was no extended warranty available at the time of purchase for Laura.
2. Share your entire service schedule with works done - as per attachment
3. When was the last service done? - Jan 2017
4. How is there 6l of oil (change/top up) between the first 2 services. Not clear. - I meant to say " 3 litres of oil in just 6000 kms" If I were to go by their service schedule which is service every 15k kms, I would have had to top up twice the amount of oil which is more than 6 litres. Sorry for my wrong statement. I overlooked it.
5. What all services were skipped and why? - 3rd Service and the 7th Service..that is because mileage was less and oil was topped up just a month before the actual service due. I had asked the advisor about it and he said chalega service nahi kiya to.
6. When was the last communication with Skoda? From a cause of action and limitation perspective this becomes critical - I got a letter last month from Skoda Czech republic saying that Skoda India shall contact me. Nobody from Skoda India has contacted me. Last week I got an email from Czech Republic office which says Skoda India is the decision maker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
This is the part where Skoda has played dirty, nevermind the technicalities. You need to pull them up on this and I understand that its not going to lead to a satisfactory result either way. If you take the company up on this they'll play the ignorance card and say what their service advisor wants them to say and the courts.. well its anyone's guess.

As others have said, if you have the time.. you can consider the legal route but the best way is to hope for all misunderstandings to get settled mutually with the company though the chances of that happening (which would result in them admitting to a mistake) is almost nil. Why not write a long, descriptive email of the same to the company, it is your right to do so being a customer of 2 Skoda vehicles combined costing almost Rs.30L.

I have already sent them a long descriptive mail & a legal representation mail to the MD in India, their whistle blower committee, their Chairman at Czech Republic. While the indian counterpart remains mum, the Czech Republic office says that the Indian Counterpart shall take the decision. :(

Last edited by ampere : 9th June 2017 at 11:37. Reason: Trimmed quoted post
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:48   #45
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Default Re: Legal Suit against Skoda India for Faulty Engine in Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI

Sorry but so much for german engineering! It is incredible to me that in 21st century, a company is claiming that it will lose 1litre of oil per 1000 km in its own manual and people consider this as normal.

My good old Mahindra does not even recommend oil change every service but every alternate service (i.e. every 20000km).

It is baffling to me that people complain about Indian (Mahindra and Tata) car quality and yet accept "German" cars as pinnacle of engineering.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 9th June 2017 at 12:47. Reason: loose > lose.
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