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Old 1st June 2010, 15:07   #1
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Default Excessive engine oil consumption in the VAG TSI engines

I'm more than a little concerned about this since I do recall a few Skoda/VW owners complain about engine oil consumption recently...

My A4 2.0 TFSI is at 2500km in about 2 months - has already been 'topped up' with 1 liter of engine oil 3 weeks ago and today just asked for another top-up. This can't be normal!

I know its a turbo and I have been driving with somewhat of a lead-foot but this is ridiculous!

Anybody with similar experiences? Is this par for the course or is there improvement as the miles pile on?
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Old 1st June 2010, 15:11   #2
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This is par for the course. The more you redline it during the first 7-8k kms, the more oil it will consume. My 1.8 TSI consumed oil upto 8k, but now its settled down. Doesnt drink any more oil.

All in all I think I topped up 3-4 litres of oil totally.
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Old 1st June 2010, 15:15   #3
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Can anyone specify the technical reason behind this?
Normal Midsize sedans with SOHC and DOHC engines,like OHC,Lancer's Accent's never had this oil level drop,how hard you may rip them.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 14:21   #4
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Unfortunate, but its standard fare for the Audi / VW / Skoda FSI engines. I remember another member stating that its to do with the oil rings bedding in. As holysmoke posted, expect this to continue (1L / 1000 kms) until about the 10,000 kms mark.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 18:29   #5
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Stop speeding @ 160mph !!
This is common in your engine. Stop driving too much in the middle to upper band range. When you really throttle it up your are really sucking up all the oil vapours in your crankcase, through the PCV tract. This happens very commöly to many 'turbo drivers'.

In the early lifes of your engine, your turbochargers (I am talking about its bearings) which run at extremely high rpms also consumes and leaks oil !

However you dont have to worry about the emissions or bad effects to your catalyst or loss in performance or what ever because of burning vapours in your engine as all these will being which are being burnt will be compensated during the calibration process of an engine.

Just make sure you lubricate your ride.

@akshay : (On lighter note): you shouldn't even own a German, turbo-powered, car if you're not checking the oil for over 5k miles. They are technically advanced piece of machinery

Last edited by rranjith_kum : 2nd June 2010 at 18:33.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 20:55   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rranjith_kum View Post
Stop speeding @ 160mph !!
This is common in your engine. Stop driving too much in the middle to upper band range. When you really throttle it up your are really sucking up all the oil vapours in your crankcase, through the PCV tract. This happens very commöly to many 'turbo drivers'.

In the early lifes of your engine, your turbochargers (I am talking about its bearings) which run at extremely high rpms also consumes and leaks oil !

However you dont have to worry about the emissions or bad effects to your catalyst or loss in performance or what ever because of burning vapours in your engine as all these will being which are being burnt will be compensated during the calibration process of an engine.

Just make sure you lubricate your ride.

@akshay : (On lighter note): you shouldn't even own a German, turbo-powered, car if you're not checking the oil for over 5k miles. They are technically advanced piece of machinery
Well this makes,me think,that i should rather own a german car,as i have a habit of whats going on under the hood almost every 2-3 days,and before and after every long drive.
So,its a case of rings bedding.
but why doesnt this happen in usual Korean\Japanese\Indian vehicles?
I havent heard of any such issues with the Octy VRS even,which used to come with 1.8L Turbo engine?
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Old 3rd June 2010, 13:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
So,its a case of rings bedding.
but why doesnt this happen in usual Korean\Japanese\Indian vehicles?
I havent heard of any such issues with the Octy VRS even,which used to come with 1.8L Turbo engine?
Precisely my objection as well...

If it's due to turbo, i.e. the oil being burnt burnt in turbo (bearings)? then it should happen in RS (which was turbo) and all current diesel engines (almost all diesels are turbo). OK, I am told the exhaust temperatures are much higher in petrol engines than in diesel engines, so I assume the turbo in RS/Tsi get really hot - much more than the ones in diesels, but then why the RS turbo was not burning oil?

If it's due to piston rings bedding - then this is ridiculous and the engine should not be termed as modern. This is like going back to Amby and premier padmini days...

So is it due to gasoline direct injection (that RS did not have)?

And, whatever be the reason, if any component is burning oil, it's ridiculous to tag the engine "euro-4" complient, isn't it? And the note in the owner's manual that says "please take proper caution while disposing off the used oil" becomes a joke. What;s the proper way to dispose off the used oil - burn it in an internal combustion engine and/or the turbo? And if turbo is burning oil, then measuring emissions at the tailpipe is foolish!


And PLEASE, I am looking for scientific technical answers.
Statements like "germans are known for drinking oil", etc make team-bhp look like a children website.


Note: I am am legitimately concerned for 2 reasons:
1. As an engineer and vehicle owner, I feel I must know.
2. I own the Laura 1.8Tsi so I must know what the hell is going on.

I was about to start a thread to get all the technical data on engine oil consumption, but this thread can really serve as the master record on the topic.

Thank you for this thread and let's keep this absolutely technical and honest and backed by solid data.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 18:55   #8
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Thank you Anand! That is exactly the kind of response I was looking for but unable to get so far!

I have spoken to the salesperson as well as service technician - they have advised me to bring in the car for a check. Will be doing that Saturday and advise the findings next week. Oil should be good for ATLEAST 5K as per other A4 B8 2.0 Tfsi owners and I am getting 20% of that figure. Absolutely preposterous!
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Old 3rd June 2010, 20:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
Well this makes,me think,that i should rather own a german car,as i have a habit of whats going on under the hood almost every 2-3 days,and before and after every long drive.

but why doesnt this happen in usual Korean\Japanese\Indian vehicles?
I havent heard of any such issues with the Octy VRS even,which used to come with 1.8L Turbo engine?
Go ahead and get yourself one.
I dont know why everyone is trying to compare this engine with other engine groups.
Fuel stratified injection engines have higher compression ratios. His engine has the figure of 10.5 : 1. Maybe he can correct me if I am wrong. Just go and see the engine data of a Octavia VRS I suppose it not more than 9.5:1.

So the way you run in, in these engines matter. Till you run in they will consume oil. Any new engine will consume oil during this stage. Of course how you run them in and driving style matters. Now a days due to the high developments in manufacturing and precision tools the run in period has reduced. That is exactly why you dont notice in most of the brands (The Japs,koreans or whatever you have mentioned)
This engine family has a slow run in period I dont know for what ever reasons, I aint the one who designed it. Moreover you get thin synthetic oil which really gets consumed up during this process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
If it's due to turbo, i.e. the oil being burnt burnt in turbo (bearings)? then it should happen in RS (which was turbo) and all current diesel engines (almost all diesels are turbo). OK, I am told the exhaust temperatures are much higher in petrol engines than in diesel engines, so I assume the turbo in RS/Tsi get really hot - much more than the ones in diesels, but then why the RS turbo was not burning oil?

If it's due to piston rings bedding - then this is ridiculous and the engine should not be termed as modern. This is like going back to Amby and premier padmini days...

So is it due to gasoline direct injection (that RS did not have)?

And, whatever be the reason, if any component is burning oil, it's ridiculous to tag the engine "euro-4" complient, isn't it? And the note in the owner's manual that says "please take proper caution while disposing off the used oil" becomes a joke. What;s the proper way to dispose off the used oil - burn it in an internal combustion engine and/or the turbo? And if turbo is burning oil, then measuring emissions at the tailpipe is foolish!


And PLEASE, I am looking for scientific technical answers.
Statements like "germans are known for drinking oil", etc make team-bhp look like a children website.


Note: I am am legitimately concerned for 2 reasons:
1. As an engineer and vehicle owner, I feel I must know.
2. I own the Laura 1.8Tsi so I must know what the hell is going on.

I was about to start a thread to get all the technical data on engine oil consumption, but this thread can really serve as the master record on the topic.

Thank you for this thread and let's keep this absolutely technical and honest and backed by solid data.
Turbochargers do consume some oil. I didnt mean in alarming levels something like out of his entire 2 litre, that he lost about 1.8l through his turbo. As an engineer you should be knowing the speed at which a turbo is running, then what makes you hard to digest the fact. During the run in period of the engine, its common for it to comsume oil.
This is also exaggerated by the driving style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speeding@160mph View Post
Thank you Anand! That is exactly the kind of response I was looking for but unable to get so far!

I have spoken to the salesperson as well as service technician - they have advised me to bring in the car for a check. Will be doing that Saturday and advise the findings next week. Oil should be good for ATLEAST 5K as per other A4 B8 2.0 Tfsi owners and I am getting 20% of that figure. Absolutely preposterous!
They offered you a check ! Good service I would say. However I highly doubt any problem. I guess they will return to you saying it all fine and no problem, its common and so on.
Oil consumption for upto 1L/1000 km is cause for concern. This is what I have read too. Beyond that you can try to look for problems. Anyways keep us all updated.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 20:28   #10
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Oil consumption of the volume stated is definately a "no no" - my A4 2.0 TDi never consumed any oil from service to service. Maybe it has something to do with the LED's

On a serious note, cars costing in the 30ish bracket should certainly not be behaving like this, there should be a way to "break their drinking habits"

I think you should speak or email Audi & let them explain it. If they think it is normal, they should do free top ups, to say the least.




Cheers
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Old 3rd June 2010, 21:13   #11
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Ok I just got a this info from my friend. He had it from an international forum. I am posting it here. This letter was the response Audi gave to a guy for writing to them.
Hope this clarifies things.

"Dear Mr ******:

Thank you for contacting Audi Customer Care with your questions regarding the oil consumption in your S4.(which for me has been ZERO). As you requested, I am sendingyou this informationin writing.

All properly operating internal combustion engines use a certain amount of oil to lubricate the elements that separate the combustion chamber from the crankcase, as well as those areas which are exposed to the hot gasses and flame of the combustion process. This oil is burned by the engine and processed through the exhaust system and related controls. The rate at which your vehicle's engine will consume oil depends on the quality and viscosity of oil, the speed at which the engine is operated, the climate, road conditions,HOW THE VEHICLE WAS INITIALLY DRIVEN (my caps).Another factor is the amount of dilution within, and oxidation of, the lubricant.

Because of these variable, it is difficult to establish a standard rate of oil consumption. It is our belief that using up to one quart of oil per 1,000 miles of driving is within an acceptable range. As one would expect, oil consumption can go up or down depending on individual driving habits. If you have not already done so, you may consider having an oil consumption test performed by your dealer to find if you vehicle's consumption rate is within range. They will also be able to tell you of any conditions contributing to the rate of oil consumption(????).

Thank you for providing me with the opportunity to respond to your questions. Please know that we recognize the significance of your purchase, and naturally, your satisfaction is important to us.

Should you have any future questions, please contact your audi authorized dealer or call me through Audi customer Care at (800) 822-2834.

Sincerely,
(SIGNATURE)

Elizabeth Withers
Audi Customer Care
Audi of America, Inc."


Source link: Got the definative Audi policy on oil consumption.(INTERESTING, but not surprising) - AudiWorld Forums

Last edited by rranjith_kum : 3rd June 2010 at 21:18.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 22:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Unfortunate, but its standard fare for the Audi / VW / Skoda FSI engines. I remember another member stating that its to do with the oil rings bedding in. As holysmoke posted, expect this to continue (1L / 1000 kms) until about the 10,000 kms mark.
Even Toyota Fortuner owner's manual says consumption of 1litre Oil per 1000kms is normal.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 22:23   #13
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...oblem-now.html

Guess it was discussed in that thread.
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Old 4th June 2010, 14:09   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rranjith_kum View Post
Ok I just got a this info from my friend. It is our belief that using up to one quart of oil per 1,000 miles of driving is within an acceptable range.
OIL 1 quart =.94 liters EVERY 1 mile = 1.6 km

OIL Consumed - 2 liters in 2400km - That is 30% beyond the acceptable range - I doubt any kind of tolerance would allow for this much of a margin.

Also for the gentleman directing me towards the Skoda with a similar problem - keep in mind the Skoda guys said 500ml per 1K KM, the oil consumption here is almost DOUBLE that!

Will update after I see the workshop people tomorrow.
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Old 4th June 2010, 14:39   #15
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Very interesting discussion. Sorry for breaking in to this rarefied club, but I have a related query about my Alto. It is the very opposite of what is discussed here. I change the oil every 6 months, though the distance covered during this period is just 2500 KM. Throughout this duration the oil level remains virtually unchanged, though the oil color starts to become brownish after the first 1000 KM. Is this also not abnormal? Should there not be at least some (measurable) consumption of oil for this distance?

@ Speeding@160mph

I thought a quart means 250 ML?

Last edited by Gansan : 4th June 2010 at 14:41.
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