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Old 14th March 2011, 03:53   #61
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijaycool View Post
Let us know the parts breakup and how is she performing now


Regards,
Vijay
I have already got a bill for it, few parts couldn't be understood by me because of the handwriting of the mechanic. Expenses as of right now is close to 55k, few more things are left. Will post the whole expenses tomorrow once I have a clear list of all the parts replaced.
Regarding the performance, I am a bit disappointed as she's just not idling properly, in spite of changing oils, filters, cleaning sensors, throttle body, I and the mechanic just cant seem to figure out why this is happening and to top it up I thought that it could be the ignition coils which are at fault but out here at the workshop if I order the ignition coil and its not at fault then I'll have to keep it with me (not a very good thing but understood because the mechanic has a very small garages which don't get palio 1.2 too often so 1.6 was a distant question) which means another 4.5k expense to top the already high bill.
Here is the issue, idling is very shakey, at slight press of the accelerator the engine goes below idle rpm and then again comes up or sometimes just stalls, no fault with the plugs, plug cables, checked them, removed air filter assembly completely since i thought it might be clogged somewhere but still no difference, cleaned throttle body, still no difference, no check engine light, so i guess only parts which need to be replaced/checked properly by a professional is ignition coil or throttle body or both.
Is there any way to figure out what is wrong? did anyone here come across this sort of issue ever? I had a little similar sort of issue before (read previous posts) but then that time the car was completely misfiring, cleaning the throttle body did help to sort the misfiring and the idling had improved too but not like it was before, previously it was butter smooth, it was unnoticeable whether the car was on or not, i always had to see the rpm meter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
Thats great! saves a lot of money which the new car demands and a Palio in showroom condition is fantastic!

Awaiting for pics and more details....
I have clicked a couple of pics when i visited her last but they are in my camera which is with a friend, so tomorrow i will upload them. The colored bumper somewhat didn't match the bonnet color because the bonnet color is a little faded with time, will be painting the whole body once I have enough money to do it.

Will keep you guys updated. Thanks for keeping this beautiful little car alive, I had literally given up on her the day she started with her issues but few issues in front of miles of happiness is nothing. She never broke down as my other hyundais did no matter what condition she was in.

Last edited by abhijeetveer : 14th March 2011 at 03:54. Reason: made a mistake, landed up writing my post between a quote so it flashed as a quote. appologies
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Old 14th March 2011, 14:57   #62
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Abhijeet, I had a similar problem with my 1.2. Turned out to be a a vacuum pressure tube which needed to be fixed back. It took approx 3secs to do that & the car has been running fine for a year now.
I will try & post pics over the weekend to give you an exact sense of the location of the tube, it's barely 5-6 cms long.
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Old 14th March 2011, 18:12   #63
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Exactly its a vaccum hose issue. Open the Fiat cap in front of the engine and check the o'rings. It should fit tight. Check the pcv hose near ICV there will a fine mesh filter inside. Clean well with a Carb cleaner and try again. Look for any cracks in the tube. Do a ecu reset and throttle learning procedure. Even my car is vibrating like ------00 ------00 the - indicates no vibes and 0 is vibration. I strongly suspect timing belt issue. Use System G it will smoothen the vibrations.

OT:: By the way last week I got a silver GTX which was put on sale in the T-Bhp classifieds
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Old 14th March 2011, 18:30   #64
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijeetveer View Post
Here is the issue, idling is very shakey, at slight press of the accelerator the engine goes below idle rpm and then again comes up or sometimes just stalls.
I can say for sure its not a high voltage electrical issue. It sure is related to enriching of the petrol mixture. If this issue is there only at idling then check your sensors that govern idling mixture which is the Lambda sensor. This sensor feeds the ECU with inputs to govern the idling mixture. IF the sensor is fine then there is probability with the idling stepper motor which is in the throttle body. To count out the stepper motor switch on the AC and check for similar rpm. The rpm should not go down with the AC switched on or with all other loads switched on. IF the rpm is somewhat normal then Stepper is fine. This leads to the possibility of the connecting pipes and the PCV valve. In Maruti cars the PCV valve is the usual culprit. Have a check of this too. Also do check fuel line pressures for a weak or clogged primary fuel pump and filter in the petrol tank.

Last edited by drpullockaran : 14th March 2011 at 18:31.
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Old 18th March 2011, 22:35   #65
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Hi Abhijeet,
I have only one question for you. Did you changed the timing belt during this make over? If yes, thats the reason for lumpy idle. Fiat uses special Cam locking tool for DOHC engines which lock the cam and sets the proper timing.

Check this

Technical: 1.6 cambelt change - the detail - The FIAT Forum

you may need to visit the TASS workshow who has this tool and recheck cam timing again.

Before taking to TASS check the resistance of the plug caps. Remove one spark plug cap at a time also remove the wire from the distributor. Test the wire resistance. When I tested I got the following values.
Cylinder 1 - 36 Mega ohms
Cyl 2- open circuit no value
cylinder 3 - ~24 Kilo ohm
cylinder 4 - ~26 kilo ohm
I am not sure abt the values but both cyl 3,4 are in this range. My engine jumps in the 1,2 cylinder area.
I searched a lot but couldnot able to find out the ideal cap+wire resistance for 1.6 engines.
Also check the sparkplug gap must be 0.9mm nothing more and nothing less.

Last edited by vijaycool : 18th March 2011 at 22:47.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 10:54   #66
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Sorry for the late reply guys. My dog had been seriously unwell and was hospitalized. He is well now. So the next priority now is my car. Well somehow i cannot use the quote+ button so I am going to reply to all you guys. @mb jg & vijaycool: Are you guys talking about the vacuum pipe which connects to the air filter hose pipe? I'm not sure about 1.2 but in 1.6 there is a pipe which connects from the place where you put your engine oil to the air filter hose pipe. In my condition it has a small filter because so far my car has always been running on k&n. All these filters have been cleaned. Can any of you guys pls put up a picture to give me a detailed understanding as to what vacuum pipe are you talking about? Congratulations vijaycool on your purchase. She is indeed an amazing machine for the price. And yes the timing belt had snapped couple of Kms back, and the issue had worsened after that. The TASS in mumbai cant do their job well so i guess this could be a n issue. Spark plugs are new ones and the ones used for the new palios so i guess it should have a gap of 0.9mm, I shall have that checked again. Guys i need some reputed garage in mumbai who knows these things well. Because I am going bonkers now and I feel miserable cuz even after spending so much on the car she doesnt seem to be running like she should have. Pls help!
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Old 23rd March 2011, 11:07   #67
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Abhijeet: Dont worry every problem will be sorted out in your car. What we need is time and patience of course good mechanic. There is no point in going to TASS for this car. They dont understand. I dont know whether the belt has been changed by the previous owner. I asked the mech to check the date of manufacturer. If its old then change it.
If you have interest in mechanicals and little electrical. I will suggest you to buy some parts which will be easy to diagnose the potential issue and also service them when needed.
1. Good quality multimeter extra probe with crocodile clips
2. ELM 327 diagnostic tool with Fiat connector pins.
3. Workshop manual atleast for 100 1.6V engine
4. Sparkplug spanner
5. Sparkplug gauge
6. Carb cleaner spray
7. WD 40
8. Chain lube spray Motul or any other brand.

Remove the sparkplug cable and the plug cap. measure the resistance. Dont be surprised if you have open circuit in the cable if the cable is old. Grease the accelerator cable and shift cable with chain lube. Alternatively you can purchase silicone lube too but be careful silicon will foul Lambda if the lube enters the engine. Lube all the door hinges with the chain spray and wipe off excess.
Now coming to your idle vibration issue. Open the bonnet ask some one to crank the engine watch closely how it starts and where it is vibrating. Check the engine mount in the vibrating side. I still suspect its a timing issue may be 1/2 tooth difference. Look for ex fiat technician and recheck the cam timing in front of your eyes. Even if the timing is right its worth your money

Regards,
Vijay
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Old 24th March 2011, 09:42   #68
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijaycool View Post
Abhijeet: Dont worry every problem will be sorted out in your car. What we need is time and patience of course good mechanic. There is no point in going to TASS for this car. They dont understand. I dont know whether the belt has been changed by the previous owner. I asked the mech to check the date of manufacturer. If its old then change it.
If you have interest in mechanicals and little electrical. I will suggest you to buy some parts which will be easy to diagnose the potential issue and also service them when needed.
1. Good quality multimeter extra probe with crocodile clips
2. ELM 327 diagnostic tool with Fiat connector pins.
3. Workshop manual atleast for 100 1.6V engine
4. Sparkplug spanner
5. Sparkplug gauge
6. Carb cleaner spray
7. WD 40
8. Chain lube spray Motul or any other brand.

Remove the sparkplug cable and the plug cap. measure the resistance. Dont be surprised if you have open circuit in the cable if the cable is old. Grease the accelerator cable and shift cable with chain lube. Alternatively you can purchase silicone lube too but be careful silicon will foul Lambda if the lube enters the engine. Lube all the door hinges with the chain spray and wipe off excess.
Now coming to your idle vibration issue. Open the bonnet ask some one to crank the engine watch closely how it starts and where it is vibrating. Check the engine mount in the vibrating side. I still suspect its a timing issue may be 1/2 tooth difference. Look for ex fiat technician and recheck the cam timing in front of your eyes. Even if the timing is right its worth your money

Regards,
Vijay
Vijay: I have a lot of interest in this, in fact so much that most of the times Iím at the garage when the work is on. I also have couple of tools required for DIY work. Out of the mentioned things I have multimeter, workshop manual, spark plug spanner, spark plug gauge (if itís the one by which you measure the gap of the spark plug), carb cleaner spray, WD 40. Rest can be bought. I need to know where can I get the ELM 327 diagnose tool. I checked it on ebay and found it there but I cannot understand the picture of the readings that were on there. So if anyone can make me understand what reading concludes to what or what error concludes to what else if there is a book which mentions it then it will be great. Now coming to the viberation issue. The issue was there before the timing belt replacement, it increased greatly after that. Engine mounts are proper according to the mechanic, asked him to check and replace if necessary if faulty. I am picking up my car today, will post more reports and pics once i drive her a little. Spoke to few reputed garages, they didn't suspect cam timing issue. But will try getting hold of some genuine fiat technician and figure out what is the issue, else will have it sent over to TASS and will put it under the scanner under my eyes and figure out the faults, it anyway needs an ecm reset. Will keep you guys posted. Very excited about my car being on the road after 4 months. Now thats patience
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Old 24th March 2011, 10:20   #69
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

After doing some research on ebay this is what i found. Is this what you are referring to Vijay? V1.4 ELM327 OBD2 OBDII CAN-BUS Diagnostic Scanner USB - eBay (item 150567409681 end time Mar-24-11 08:58:18 PDT)
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Old 24th March 2011, 10:44   #70
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

yes Abhijeet.

you can find more details in this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...u-scanner.html (Reliable Fiat ECU scanner)
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Old 24th March 2011, 12:10   #71
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Now thats interesting, the *** guys charge a bomb to scan i will pick one for sure...
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Old 25th March 2011, 16:20   #72
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Picked up my palio from the workshop after a long tiring day. Went to the workshop car was very dusty as the building renovation work was going on, I was too excited to drive it after really long so picked it up, put the key in the ignition, battery was down. Had a friends car along with me so used it to jump start it. Kept it running for 10 mins before I left, car stalled due to new clutch setting and the "weird" idle. But started back when cranked. Alternator working, battery is charging. Couldn't see anything because of the dry cement marks on the windshield which the mechanic said will go after a good wash. He still couldn't figure out the idling issue. Here is what I noticed while driving and after reaching home. The car still has a weird idle somewhat like its missing. Huge power loss. Ground the accelerator and there is a growl from the k&n but that's about it, all show no go. Weird smell from the silencer along with the sound (more like missing sound) but smell like its running rich, fuel consumption has dropped massively, probably because of that. Will put up pics once it is washed properly. Giving the car to some other mechanic to check cam timing and idling issue and to remove k&n, going back to stock filterbox with stock replacement k&n or something better is available. Also after reaching home i switched on the ac to check if that is working, it was cooling like normal in the mumbai hear. Checked my music system, that worked too. Switched off the car tried switching it on again but again battery low. Strange. What i also noticed was the engine kept idling above 1 mark even without ac being on. It was constantly around 1100 - 1200 rpm mark. This is somewhat strange too. Any inputs from fellow owners and tech gurus?
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Old 25th March 2011, 16:30   #73
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijeetveer View Post
The car still has a weird idle somewhat like its missing. Huge power loss. Ground the accelerator and there is a growl from the k&n but that's about it, all show no go. Weird smell from the silencer along with the sound (more like missing sound) but smell like its running rich, fuel consumption has dropped massively, probably because of that.
i would first change the Lambda / O2 sensor - a bad lambda sensor usually throws up the above mentioned errors - running rich, irregular idle, power loss sometimes.

first change the lambda sensor along with a ECU reset (pull out the negative terminal of the battery for > 30 mins)
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Old 25th March 2011, 18:00   #74
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Abhijeet - you may want to check this post: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post2112667

it bothers a lot at times - but i guess i will have to live with it

also, make sure you are running correct plugs:

Quote:
i have changed the spark plugs (earlier running with Palio 1.2 Champion RC8BYC Lancia twin spark Plugs - my fault) with Champion RC10YCC Hyundai OE plugs (same as for Palio 1.6 - check Owner's Manual Page: 132).
is your problem something like this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2165470 (2002 Palio GTX - The Revival Thread)

do go through the thread, just in case if you find something familiar.
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Old 26th March 2011, 15:28   #75
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Default re: Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX issues

Hey planet rocker, what post are you referring to? I am sorry I am at a friends place since my internet is not working since a week now so don't have the time and patience to go through the whole thread. So if you can mention the exact post I will understand. Vijay: I have checked the resistance of the plug cables will update the readings in a while, I landed up removing all the 4 cables and took them home so forgot which one leads to which cylinder :P O2 sensor was replaced a year back, at that time there was a little misfiring so had this replaced after the mechanic advised me to do it. Is there a way to check if O2 sensor is at fault or is it a trial and error process?
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