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Old 11th November 2005, 10:39   #16
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Wonder why the Tatas never plonked a direct injection diesel into the Indica...after all they have DI engine technology for the trucks.

All the same, 70bhp is pretty decent output for a 1.4 litre PCC (indirect injection) diesel, though a similar DI would've pumped out more torque.

Again with the Dicor Safari, the power output at 115ps is pretty poor for a 3 litre engine - at 70 bhp for the Indigo's 1.4 litre engine a simple extrapolation should give over 140 bhp for an engine more than double the size (though it doesnt work that way). Instead the 3 litre engine with the latest DI technology produces just 64% more power from an engine thats 115% bigger in capacity than the Indigo's which is also two generations behind in technology...

Plus, the Indigo's engine is a lot smother than the Dicor's...

So does it mean they're very good with Indirect Injection technology but not so good with DI?

Last edited by Steeroid : 11th November 2005 at 10:40.
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Old 11th November 2005, 10:46   #17
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Quote:
You should drive the Sierra / Safari with the old engine. Those babies are as smooth and refined as they come.
Surely you must be joking.

The Old sierra Engines by Tata used to sound and drive like a truck. THe Sierra engine was powerful(unlike the Safari which has always been underpowered in all it's avtars) but i never saw a more unrefined unit.

My friend had disposed an old Sierra which was not selling off and used to spend more time on the workshop than on road.

One thing though, the Sierra is probably the best designed SUV (looks) i have seen in India. Maybe Tata can get it back with a better engine and good build etc.

The IDI engines are supposed to be more refined and silent for the Cars. But the DI engines are the ones that are more powerful and have more pulling power- so are used in trucks/trailers etc.. THe common rail technology has made the DI engines refined and usable for cars.

Last edited by imjimmy : 11th November 2005 at 10:48.
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Old 11th November 2005, 11:24   #18
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The reason that 3.0L engine just pumps out 115HP is its lineage. The same engine in Tata 407 mini truck pumps out 67bhp. So tata has increased the power output by 80% by adding a the common rail. Thats the main reason that it redlines near 3000rpm because its a "truck" engine. Not a truck engine in joke sense, but "actually" a truck engine.
As for technology, tata has been making turbo trucks for quite some time now, and I would rate their truck dept better than cars. Tata actually has good powerful trucks which can give(and are giving) volvo a run for its money.
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Old 11th November 2005, 12:17   #19
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Since we are talking about truck engine (407), what are torque figures for Indigo and Dicor? I am suspecting that torque figures would vary a lot more than BHP figures.
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Old 11th November 2005, 14:23   #20
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DICOR 300Nm
Indigo 132Nm

your suspicion is true. DICORs torque is a whopper
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Old 11th November 2005, 15:16   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
DICOR 300Nm
Indigo 132Nm
your suspicion is true. DICORs torque is a whopper
Not surprising then. One needs lot more torque for trucks than high BHP figures. SUV would need more torque than a car since it is designed for off-roading.
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Old 11th November 2005, 16:04   #22
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Torque is about 126% more and the engine is about 115% bigger in capacity...the increase in torque seems more in line with engine capacity than engine technology.
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Old 11th November 2005, 18:51   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imjimmy
The Old sierra Engines by Tata used to sound and drive like a truck. the Sierra engine was powerful(unlike the Safari which has always been underpowered in all it's avtars) but i never saw a more unrefined unit.
erm...the sierra turbo and the safari, both shared the same turbocharged, intercooled, 2.0 litre IDI engines, with EXACTLY the same power and torque figures (which stood at 90 bhp and 19.0 kgm respectively). the sierra turbo was W-A-Y faster than the safari, only due to it's power-to-weight ratio, nothing else.

also, used sierra turbos are hard to come by, only because the owners refuse to sell them, and not due to the fact that the sierra turbo sold in limited numbers, of which the 4x4 versions as rare as a dodge prowler in india. and trust me, the sierra turbo WAS pretty refined, and as rugged as they came...

i had a non-turbo sierra, and although it was not exactly pajero-material, it had withstood the hardships of time pretty well. i searched heaven and hell for a (propah) turbo 4x4 version, but alas, destiny had something else in store for me...

and oh; before i forget, the all-new safari is due 2007, and the ongoing DICOR is just a anti-ageing makeover for the safari-V3. and from what i've heard, that safari is going to sport a 2.2 litre, 140bhp engine...
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Old 11th November 2005, 19:11   #24
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Its called the X2 platform. On this platform Tata will base Safari and another MuV(Innova style).
I guess it does not cost Tata much to make this 3L engine as the base is already being made for the 407 truck.
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Old 11th November 2005, 19:40   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
and oh; before i forget, the all-new safari is due 2007, and the ongoing DICOR is just a anti-ageing makeover for the safari-V3.
Thanks mate, you've aged me plenty!
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Old 11th November 2005, 19:49   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeroid
Thanks mate, you've aged me plenty!
whoopsie...sorry, uncleji.... but hey, maybe you can upgrade your DICOR and get the new one by '07; and perhaps tata will offer a loyalty bonus for the safari-safari trade-in, eh...

but hey, no sweat; the DICOR is a terrific machine, and who cares if it's a li'l dusty off the shelf..? where i come from, OLD IS GOLD....

@tsk; the x2 has already evolved, my friend, and the news of x3 is doing the rounds; and rumours are abound of a de-specced X-OVER launch, sometime late....
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Old 11th November 2005, 20:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
whoopsie...sorry, uncleji.... but hey, maybe you can upgrade your DICOR and get the new one by '07;....
That I will. Meanwhile I'm busy giving Tata Motors a few things to think of...I've also offered my vehicle to them as a sort of advanced Beta tester. Since I'm out of the country most of the time they might as well give me the latest that they're fooling around with...hopefully I will get an engine in a higher state of tune one of these days.
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Old 25th March 2006, 23:10   #28
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Hi,

Bringing this thread up coz need some info. on Turbo chargers. I was seraching thread for turbo chargers and came to know how they work
.

I have some queries.

1. The turbo charger in indica/indigo and turbo charger in Skoda are different ?

2. when do the turbo charger kicks in. i.e. i have heared that turbo charger in indica/Indigo kickes in after 5 mins of driving or 5 the gear or at 2k rpm. Is it same with skoda.??

3. Indigo have a indirect ignition and skoda direct ignition. so wats the difference ?

Only this for now. As soon as i get replies for you all may be more queries will arise.

So cheers !!!
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Old 25th March 2006, 23:31   #29
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1: No, the turbocharger in the Indica/Indigo is different than the turbocharger in the Octavia. Different cars have different Psi for the Turbocharger (pressure).

2: Its not like in 2 mins a turbo kicks in or in 2 and a half minutes When the engine starts, the turbo faces some lag , that is, it is a standstill and needs a little bit more force for the turbine to start rotation. That is called turbolag. When the turbine starts rotating at the proper rpm, you say that the turbocharger kicks in.

3: Direct Injection : Diesel is injected directly into the cylinder. The diesel engine has no spark plugs. The air it takes in is compressed and the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder where the heat caused by the air compression ignites the fuel.

Indirect Injection: An indirect injection diesel engine delivers fuel into a chamber off the combustion chamber, called a prechamber, where combustion begins and then spreads into the main combustion chamber.
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Old 25th March 2006, 23:34   #30
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Thansk for the info ..

So the only difference in skoda and indigo is the injection. indigo indirect and skoda direct. ?

Also in skoda the turbo charger kicks in after the turbine starts rotating ?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
1: No, the turbocharger in the Indica/Indigo is different than the turbocharger in the Octavia. Different cars have different Psi for the Turbocharger (pressure).

2: Its not like in 2 mins a turbo kicks in or in 2 and a half minutes When the engine starts, the turbo faces some lag , that is, it is a standstill and needs a little bit more force for the turbine to start rotation. That is called turbolag. When the turbine starts rotating at the proper rpm, you say that the turbocharger kicks in.

3: Direct Injection : Diesel is injected directly into the cylinder. The diesel engine has no spark plugs. The air it takes in is compressed and the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder where the heat caused by the air compression ignites the fuel.

Indirect Injection: An indirect injection diesel engine delivers fuel into a chamber off the combustion chamber, called a prechamber, where combustion begins and then spreads into the main combustion chamber.
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