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Old 13th August 2013, 12:15   #46
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

I have landed in some sort of issue with my AC, yet to find time to give it to MASS. The background of the story is that my car was left at MASS for some job.
Now when I turn on the AC, it shows no stress on the engine, neither it cools. The car runs if the AC is off. I suspect the gas is lost.

What could be other reasons. The belt on the compressor is fine.
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Old 21st August 2013, 18:09   #47
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

I think the replacement gas (R134a) has leaked. Just adding a background, my MASS had filled R134a in R12 system by flushing it & changing the compressor oil.

Members, any thoughts now that why the AC even when switched on is stressing the engine?
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Old 1st January 2014, 00:21   #48
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Exclamation re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
On the same boat here with my 13-year old Alto. Thinking of doing a complete change of all the HVAC components for peace of mind - have been quoted ~40K by an Authorized Service-Center here for the job.
Follow-Up : My 2001 Alto Vx had to be admitted in an Authorized-Service-Center here for an extended period of time for fitment of an EPS. I thought that it would be an ideal time to take care of the R12 to R134A switch as well. Turns out it really wasn't necessary - my car had R134A all along ! I'd thought that it used R12 due to its' vintage, but I was wrong

If the A/C fitting in your car is of the quick-connect type, it's almost certain that your car's HVAC system uses R134A - in contrast R12 systems have a fitting with external threads. Also, if you own a car that you know uses R12 & you'd like to convert to R134A, check if a retro-fit kit is already available for your car. For example, Maruti provides the following retro-fit kits for the M800, Esteem, & Zen.

95999M60R00 - R134A RETROFITMENT KIT (ESTEEM W/O PS) - 4,445
95999M60R10 - R134A RETROFITMENT KIT (ESTEEM WITH PS) - 5,383
95999M70R00 - R134A RETROFITMENT KIT (ZEN OLD) - 5,632
95999M84R00 - R134A RETROFITMENT KIT (CAR-800 CARB) - 6,052
95999M84R10 - R134A RETROFITMENT KIT (CAR-800 MPFI) - 5,198
95999M70RD0 - R134A RETROFITMENT KIT (ZEN DELPHI) - 2,614

These kits typically consist of an R134A compatible Receiver/Drier, O-Rings, Hoses, & Quick-Connect fittings. Compressor change or an expensive replacement of the entire HVAC system is rarely necessary.
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Old 1st January 2014, 12:03   #49
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
My 2001 Alto Vx had to be admitted in an Authorized-Service-Center here for an extended period of time for fitment of an EPS.
Hi. Can you please share more details on the fitment of EPS on your Alto. Cost, parts, time involved etc and can it also be fitted on a WagonR?
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Old 1st January 2014, 13:55   #50
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Exclamation re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
Hi. Can you please share more details on the fitment of EPS on your Alto. Cost, parts, time involved etc and can it also be fitted on a WagonR?
Hi Sherlock, it's been a protracted & difficult experience trying to fit an EPS into my 2001 Alto (Vx).
In fact, the 'operation' hasn't concluded yet, my car's been in the garage for a good month now, that said, I'm told they're very close to success ( fingers crossed ! ).
So as not to take this thread off topic, will PM you the details & once the EPS fitment is complete, post the full story on a more appropriate thread (Modding an Alto).
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Old 5th October 2014, 02:14   #51
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Sorry for bumping up an old thread. Does anyone know whether 5 speed 800's manufactured in Jan 2000 really used compressor of Zen or not?? AFAIK, 5speed 800 had a larger cc compressor.. Or was it just a rumour. JFYI, 800DX had a different HVAC system along with standard heater as opposed to 800 AC models, which had a smaller compressor and NO heater.
I have actually given up on hopes of finding R12 gas or Mo49. Planning to go for a conversion to R134.

Regards
Shashi
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Old 5th October 2014, 07:13   #52
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Sorry for bumping up an old thread. Does anyone know whether 5 speed 800's manufactured in Jan 2000 really used compressor of Zen or not?? AFAIK, 5speed 800 had a larger cc compressor.. Or was it just a rumour. JFYI, 800DX had a different HVAC system along with standard heater as opposed to 800 AC models, which had a smaller compressor and NO heater.
I have actually given up on hopes of finding R12 gas or Mo49. Planning to go for a conversion to R134.

Regards
Shashi
5speed 800 shared its parts with Alto, not Zen. If you want to change to R134a, there is a MGP kit for the same at 5k according to the members in Zen thread.
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Old 5th October 2014, 09:25   #53
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Thanks Zenren
One last query-Many mechanics are telling that post r134 conversion, AC will not chill like it used to do before. Its cooling efficiency will be reduced and if I want a proper system, I should change the compressor as well. Is this a genuine fact or are they trying to make money out of me.
Has anyone tried the conversion kit here?? What are your views??

Regards
Shashi
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Old 5th October 2014, 10:20   #54
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Thanks Zenren
One last query-Many mechanics are telling that post r134 conversion, AC will not chill like it used to do before. Its cooling efficiency will be reduced and if I want a proper system, I should change the compressor as well. Is this a genuine fact or are they trying to make money out of me.
Has anyone tried the conversion kit here?? What are your views??

Regards
Shashi
In my case, I ended up replacing compressor and the cooling is way superior than ever before. Evaporator coil needed replacement in my case as the old one had several leaks and the FNG's AC expert said it is better to replace the compressor too. We went with Sanden or Subros compressor from open market that was way cheaper than the MGP part. Total cost was under 10K including evaporator coil which you might not need. So I guess the cost might be in the range of 5-7k range even with compressor change if done by reliable FNGs provided all other components are perfect.
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Old 5th October 2014, 10:34   #55
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

In my case, cooling is perfect when Dupont Mo49 replacement is added, but it lasted only for one year. I had used 1 can of Mo49.
Why did you have to change the compressor? Was it damaged too or you changed just for better cooling??
I will never go the FNG way- They will sometimes be your saviour, but in most other cases they tend to screw up the car pretty badly. My city is a small one with not many good FNG's.
I am thinking of going the replacement kit way from MASS. If it doesn't work out, I will get a replacement compressor from market and get it installed by MASS.
The compressor is in excellent shape, so do you think it needs replacement?? Or will just oil change do the job?? Is there any design change in r134 compressor? ?
Regards
Shashi
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Old 5th October 2014, 11:15   #56
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
In my case, cooling is perfect when Dupont Mo49 replacement is added, but it lasted only for one year. I had used 1 can of Mo49.
Why did you have to change the compressor? Was it damaged too or you changed just for better cooling??
I will never go the FNG way- They will sometimes be your saviour, but in most other cases they tend to screw up the car pretty badly. My city is a small one with not many good FNG's.
I am thinking of going the replacement kit way from MASS. If it doesn't work out, I will get a replacement compressor from market and get it installed by MASS.
The compressor is in excellent shape, so do you think it needs replacement?? Or will just oil change do the job?? Is there any design change in r134 compressor? ?
Regards
Shashi
Then I would say go ahead with existing compressor and change later only in case needed.

In my case, my compressor was already 14 years old anyway and my FNG suggested replacing it. I have a good relationship with the guy and he never asks me to replace something if it is not necessary, even if I suggest a replacement. Also, this was in 2009 and the conversions were just starting back then. So it could also have been a "to be on the safe side" approach.

Last edited by zenren : 5th October 2014 at 11:18.
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Old 5th October 2014, 11:47   #57
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

My car's compressor is also about 15 years old. But according to MASS, it is in perfect shape. Though I must admit, it was used very judiciously and gently.

Anyways, thanks for the support, will be visiting MASS on Wednesday for the conversion; will keep you updated.

Regards
Shashi
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Old 5th October 2014, 17:29   #58
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

I hear there is a duPont replacement for R12, so why not that.
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Old 5th October 2014, 18:22   #59
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I hear there is a duPont replacement for R12, so why not that.
Yes Sir, I too had used it once (M049+) inspired by conversations of you and Kamal Sir. I was a guest user back then. But since last year, I am unable to find stock of Dupont locally, and contacts from Delhi are not active in sending those to me.

However I must say, the replacement used to chill the cabin in no time. The gas was super effective.

To avoid these hassles, I am thinking of going for the conversion.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 6th October 2014, 12:43   #60
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Anyways, thanks for the support, will be visiting MASS on Wednesday for the conversion; will keep you updated.

Regards
Shashi
Do keep us updated on the event Shashi. I will be interested in the conversion myself too.

My car uses the same R12 refrigerant. I searched the entire city and could not find it. Hence, just changed the compressor oil, got the system flushed and finally filled R134a as refrigerant from MASS. The cooling did improve but just a bit. Still cannot be called efficient in biting summers. Also, R134a is more corrosive than the R12, hence pipes, hoses and other parts designed for R12 may not hold for long if using R134a. Also, this may lead to gas leaks. Changing the entire system to R134a including the compressor will cost about 35-40K at MASS. There is another half-kit option that will replace the evaporator bottle, all pipes and similar stuff for about 10K. But according to someone I know at MASS, the proper efficiency will only be attained if we change the entire system which is quite a bit expensive for a 14-15 year old cars.

Keep us posted.

Regards,
Saket
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