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Old 6th October 2014, 13:16   #61
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Do keep us updated on the event Shashi. I will be interested in the conversion myself too.

My car uses the same R12 refrigerant. I searched the entire city and could not find it. Hence, just changed the compressor oil, got the system flushed and finally filled R134a as refrigerant from MASS. The cooling did improve but just a bit. Still cannot be called efficient in biting summers. Also, R134a is more corrosive than the R12, hence pipes, hoses and other parts designed for R12 may not hold for long if using R134a. Also, this may lead to gas leaks. Changing the entire system to R134a including the compressor will cost about 35-40K at MASS. There is another half-kit option that will replace the evaporator bottle, all pipes and similar stuff for about 10K. But according to someone I know at MASS, the proper efficiency will only be attained if we change the entire system which is quite a bit expensive for a 14-15 year old cars.

Keep us posted.

Regards,
Saket
Are you interested in getting the Dupont Gas?? I have talked to someone just now, he is a dealer from Delhi. He has agreed to ship it to me. If you wish, we can order together.
I had dupont earlier and it used to chill the cabin in no time. Hence I am willing to go the Dupont way. It costs Rs.350 a can, and I have talked about two cans. Don't know how much will be used.

Regards
Shashi
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Old 6th October 2014, 13:24   #62
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Thanks Shashi for the gesture. However, I have already migrated to R134a. Don't know if I can revert to replacement gases for R12. These gases are not friendly among themselves.

Thanks,
Saket
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Old 6th October 2014, 13:44   #63
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

You'll have to flush again. Since you haven't changed the kit, you can easily switch back to Dupont. Anyways, its your call if you aren't satisfied with the cooling.

Regards,
Shashi.
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Old 6th October 2014, 15:09   #64
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
You'll have to flush again. Since you haven't changed the kit, you can easily switch back to Dupont. Anyways, its your call if you aren't satisfied with the cooling.

Regards,
Shashi.
Probably will have to change the compressor oil too for R12 equivalent. Doubt if that will still be available as R12 is now out of market since long.
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Old 6th October 2014, 16:49   #65
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

From what MASS has told me, compressor oil is just for lubrication, and there is nothing called R134 compatible oil. It is flushed and changed so that the gases don't get mixed or contaminated. Expert members, please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 6th October 2014, 17:21   #66
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
From what MASS has told me, compressor oil is just for lubrication, and there is nothing called R134 compatible oil. It is flushed and changed so that the gases don't get mixed or contaminated. Expert members, please correct me if I am wrong.
A system with R134a needs synthetic oil (90 ml) while the older systems including R-12 use mineral oil. These two oils cannot be mixed.

Edit: If you want to know the compatibility of different oils with different refrigerants, you can see this link:https://www.rtitech.com/downloads/Ne...Compressor.pdf

The answer is not direct since more than a knowledge article, it is a marketing article of an oil maker, but you can easily infer compatibility & differences.

Last edited by saket77 : 6th October 2014 at 17:26.
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Old 6th October 2014, 17:25   #67
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Thanks for the clarification. But isn't Dupont M049+ compatible with both type of oils?? I am presently discussing the same with some other 800 owners on Whatsapp and one of those told me that M049 spec sheet probably mentions this. I am currently going through the same. Will update you on this.

Regards
Shashi

Edit- Saket, can you please contact your SA at Poddar motors whether mineral oil is still available or not?? Otherwise I am stuck,despite having M049.. I was planning of getting oil changed as it has never been touched after 2008.

Last edited by Leoshashi : 6th October 2014 at 17:28.
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Old 6th October 2014, 17:39   #68
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Looks like the M049Plus is compatible with both oils. All you need is to flush out the existing refrigerant. However, DuPont does recommend to change the seals exposed to the older refrigerant. Here's is the procedure recommended by Dupont in case you don't have it:
http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/...guidelines.pdf
I suggest you keep a print of this document at hand while carrying on the job. Should help the cause immensely.

Also, keep in mind, M049Plus is initially charged upto only 85% of the R-12 charge weight. Finally, the charge can be taken to 95% at the max. Expect a little lower cooling efficiency when compared to R-12. Also, add at least 10-15% of oil when changing the refrigerant as some oil drains away with the older gas.

Edit: Shashi, I read the DuPont M049Plus specs sheet. It mentions that it is compatible with newer oils. Hence, I think there is no need to worry. Just get the system flushed, change the oil and get the new refrigerant in the system. Remember, max. charge weight of 049Plus should not be more than 90-95% of R-12 standard charge weight. It is because the density of both are different.

Last edited by saket77 : 6th October 2014 at 17:50.
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Old 6th October 2014, 18:46   #69
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Looks like the M049Plus is compatible with both oils. All you need is to flush out the existing refrigerant. However, DuPont does recommend to change the seals exposed to the older refrigerant. Here's is the procedure recommended by Dupont in case you don't have it:
http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/...guidelines.pdf
I suggest you keep a print of this document at hand while carrying on the job. Should help the cause immensely.

Also, keep in mind, M049Plus is initially charged upto only 85% of the R-12 charge weight. Finally, the charge can be taken to 95% at the max. Expect a little lower cooling efficiency when compared to R-12. Also, add at least 10-15% of oil when changing the refrigerant as some oil drains away with the older gas.

Edit: Shashi, I read the DuPont M049Plus specs sheet. It mentions that it is compatible with newer oils. Hence, I think there is no need to worry. Just get the system flushed, change the oil and get the new refrigerant in the system. Remember, max. charge weight of 049Plus should not be more than 90-95% of R-12 standard charge weight. It is because the density of both are different.

Thanks a lot for that useful info. The seals which dupont suggests to change-are those available as MGP?? And lastly, how will a MASS be for such a job, if I provide them with the refrigerant?? I was thinking of going to either Poddar Motors or Maruti Clinic.
And from my experience, Dupont chills the cabin. I have never experienced that kind of chillness either from my r12 system or from the newer 800's which have r134 from beginning. I rate it 1.5 times better than any other gas. In my 15 years of ownership of 800, never did the passengers requested to switch down the AC a bit, but with Dupont, it did happen.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 7th October 2014, 10:10   #70
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
And from my experience, Dupont chills the cabin. I have never experienced that kind of chillness either from my r12 system or from the newer 800's which have r134 from beginning. I rate it 1.5 times better than any other gas. In my 15 years of ownership of 800, never did the passengers requested to switch down the AC a bit, but with Dupont, it did happen.
As you know Shashi, I do not have first hand experience of M049+. I have just gone through the specs sheet of the gas and saw it mentioned on the same. Good that if the gas is that effective. May be I will consider it while my next gas recharge.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 00:26   #71
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Hello all,

Need a few suggestions from you all. I have been contemplating converting my 5-Speed 800's AC to R134 for quite some time. I had ordered the conversion kit but MASS goofed up and got kit for carb 800, so I got some more time to kill.

My queries-

1. If my old R12 compressor is in excellent shape, is the compressor change needed?? What is the correct procedure to convert?? Also different MASSes are telling me different things like
- If only kit is changed, and compressor isn't then cooling will degrade.
-It will kill my existing compressor.
- My engine will seize if I change only the kit and not the compressor.
Is there any truth to this claim, or are they just trying to mint money out of me??


2. How big is the kit carton dimensionally?? If MASS at Ranchi is unable to source it, I can ask my friend to get it from Bangalore.

3. Also why is there such a huge difference in pricing of Compressor?? Subros OEM costs 10k while the same compressor with a MGP logo costs about 17k. Which one is advisable??

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 2nd April 2015, 02:07   #72
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

^^^
MGP compressors are manufactured and supplied by Subros.

No issues with compressor when converting to R134a, unless the failure is due to age and one blames the refrigerant change.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 22:10   #73
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
^^^
MGP compressors are manufactured and supplied by Subros.

No issues with compressor when converting to R134a, unless the failure is due to age and one blames the refrigerant change.
Thanks Sir.

Had a talk with Subros dealer at Patna. He suggested me to go for entire kit change, not just the conversion kit. His logic being that my condenser unit will be of older type, hence cooling won't be as effective. I am now badly confused.

Now my doubt can only be cleared by someone who has changed the conversion kit.

Sir do you have any experience with this?? How will the cooling be if I change only the conversion kit??
My compressor is in top shape.


regards,
Shashi
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Old 2nd April 2015, 22:57   #74
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Had a talk with Subros dealer at Patna.
Sir do you have any experience with this?? How will the cooling be if I change only the conversion kit??
Talk to Anurag Daga (Automotive Air-conditioning - Daga Autolek (Kolkata)). He would be the best person to advise you. I know for a fact that he would not give you frivolous advice.

You could perhaps consider driving down to Kolkata and ask him to do the conversion.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 23:06   #75
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Default re: Zen AC compressor change (R12 to R134)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Thanks Sir.

Had a talk with Subros dealer at Patna. He suggested me to go for entire kit change, not just the conversion kit. His logic being that my condenser unit will be of older type, hence cooling won't be as effective. I am now badly confused.

Now my doubt can only be cleared by someone who has changed the conversion kit.

Sir do you have any experience with this?? How will the cooling be if I change only the conversion kit??
My compressor is in top shape.


regards,
Shashi
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Talk to Anurag Daga (Automotive Air-conditioning - Daga Autolek (Kolkata)). He would be the best person to advise you. I know for a fact that he would not give you frivolous advice.

You could perhaps consider driving down to Kolkata and ask him to do the conversion.
I got my conversion for my Zen from Anurag only. Go for the conversion kit. It will not affect your cooling.
As suggested by SS-T you can discuss with him too.
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