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Old 16th September 2012, 10:55   #136
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Default Re: Common Rail : Why is cold start tougher at higher altitudes

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
Thanks SR71 and Aroy, I do understand that all fluids will eventually freeze at low temp. but was not aware of whether engine oil can be a problem too (apart from diesel itself)
The fluids to freeze, that is why in Siberia where heavy trucks operate they do not shut them down, lest the fluids freeze at -45 degrees.
If you have watched the Movie "Day after Tomorrow" there is scene where the helicopter fuel freezes and they crash, of course that is at -70 or so.
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Old 21st September 2012, 16:30   #137
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Default Re: Common Rail : Why is cold start tougher at higher altitudes

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Finally received BG247 bottle @Rs.450 each (6 fl.oz., 177 ml, says it's good to treat 40-150 litres of diesel.
I got 4 bottles for 450 each too
Will try it out.
BG Diesel thaw is 256, but not available, though they say, given enough notice they can get it.
However, I am unable to get specific info about 256 on the web.
The question is, is 256 for use in diesel before it freezes, i.e. mix it in diesel, and be free of worry, or is it a product you add for de-icing after the fuel has gelled completely?

I cannot find the 256.pdf which talks about its use before diesel actually freezes. Not sure if its harmful to the engine when mixed at non-freezing temperatures, in anticipation.
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Old 21st September 2012, 17:10   #138
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Default Re: Common Rail : Why is cold start tougher at higher altitudes

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I got 4 bottles for 450 each too
Will try it out.
BG Diesel thaw is 256, but not available, though they say, given enough notice they can get it.
However, I am unable to get specific info about 256 on the web.
The question is, is 256 for use in diesel before it freezes, i.e. mix it in diesel, and be free of worry, or is it a product you add for de-icing after the fuel has gelled completely?
As far as I can figure out, BG256 is used to thaw out or reverse the gelling that has already happened to diesel. However, adding it to the tank after gelling, probably won't help since it won't reach the fuel lines / filters from there anyway.

Also, the mechanism through which an anti-gel like BG247/248 works would be different from that of a thawing agent. Anti-gels are co-polymers that 'cover' the wax molecules in diesel, and so prevent the wax from clumping together and crystallizing (gelling). OTOH, a thawing agent would definitely have some kind of solvent that would help to dissolve the already crystallized wax.
Quote:
These wax crystals can eventually clog the fuel filter and starve the engine of fuel, preventing it from starting or even stalling out a running engine.

AMSOIL Diesel Recovery quickly dissolves gelled fuel to allow the operator to continue driving with minimal downtime. Diesel Recovery separates the molecular bonds of wax crystals that have agglomerated in diesel fuel. It thaws frozen fuel filters and reduces the need for a new filter, saving money and preventing an inconvenient trip to an auto parts store.

Quickly Dissolves Gelled Fuel
Thaws Frozen Fuel Filters
Performs Well in ULSD, Off-Road & Biodiesel
Alcohol-Free
Non-Corrosive

Non-Corrosive, Alcohol-Free Formulation
Over extended use, alcohol has a tendency to degrade components of some fuel delivery systems. AMSOIL Diesel Recovery contains no alcohol, making it safe for repeated treatments. In addition, Diesel Recovery is non-corrosive and contains no chemicals that interact with fuel system components. Corrosion can damage fuel system components and lead to prematurely-clogged fuel filters.
From http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/drc.aspx
But do I want to run something like that on a continuous basis, pre-added to my diesel tank, in the expectation that tonight the world will freeze over? Since none of the companies manufacturing diesel thawing agents recommend their products be used in such a manner, I don't think I want to do that. Anti-gel products, yes, I'll add on a continuous basis, because the companies recommend that the material be used that way, pre-added to diesel in the tank prevent gelling.
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Old 4th July 2013, 08:42   #139
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Default 2011 vlx crde bolero 40k kms done, cold start issues

Hello;

I have a 2011 vlx crde bolero that has done 40k kms. I recently got it serviced from Ranjith Auto Care, Koramangala, Bangalore.

During the service I was advised to add Bardhal as it would reduce engine friction, which I promptly did after the service was done. I added it while the engine was still warm and as advised, drove at <2k rpm for around 2 hours continuously.

The issue I am facing is as follows:

During the previous two years, the vehicle has always had open parking. I have taken it to all kinds of places, having both hot and singe digit temperature places.

The vehicle has always started within 2-3 seconds of turning the key in. I have never needed multiple turns to start the engine.

During the recent trip to wayand after the service, to horror of my horrors, the vehicle needed three cranks to start the engine. I have also noticed that whenever I take the vehicle out in Bangalore (which is once a week), it needs atleast 5-8 seconds to start. Since I have not driven the vehicle to Madras post the service, I have not estimated the time to start when the temperature is a bit warm.

Could this be because of the additive (I do not quite think so) ? Could there be an electrical issue or starter motor issue ? What kind of data points can I give to Ranjith Auto care folks ?

Or is this quite normal for a vehicle that has done 40k kms ?

Your pointers/suggestions would help.

Thanks

Shyam

PS: I do religiously follow the turbo charged idling rule - one minute of idling before I switch off, and after I start the engine.
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Old 4th July 2013, 08:59   #140
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Default Re: 2011 vlx crde bolero 40k kms done, cold start issues

Dear Shyam,

Generally starting issues in Diesel relate to : in order of priority
1. glow-plugs healthiness
2. proper fuel supply
3. injection timings - not so relevant in CRDE
4. state of battery - the starter should spin the engine at least at 200 rpm for 3 seconds before the engine fires up

Can you list the items which they touched / replaced during service ?
Does this problem occur every time ? or only during cold starts ?

My personal opinion : Servicing at RAC would not be a good idea - they are "general" kind of mechanics, good for small odd jobs. I have had past experience with them.

It will be a good idea to visit Mahindra dealer and get the ECU scanned for trouble codes.
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Old 4th July 2013, 09:10   #141
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Default Re: 2011 vlx crde bolero 40k kms done, cold start issues

I was told that the battery water level were checked during service. I had asked them to do a 40k km service and gave them a list of items that are present in the service manual.

This issue seems to be more of a cold start issue. During the day, or when I need to stop and start the engine (say, during re-fulleing), this issue does not seem to be there.

Would you recommend a service center for the bolero, or is it better to stick to the ASC ?

Shyam
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Old 4th July 2013, 09:35   #142
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Default Re: 2011 vlx crde bolero 40k kms done, cold start issues

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Originally Posted by shyamk View Post
I had asked them to do a 40k km service and gave them a list of items that are present in the service manual.
Shyam
It would be easy to diagnose if you could list here the complete work done by them.

Sometimes the issue can be very simple - like wrong fuel filter or small air leak while reconnecting the fuel line !
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Old 4th July 2013, 13:02   #143
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Default Re: 2011 vlx crde bolero 40k kms done, cold start issues

Bolero VLX CRDe does not come with a glow plug. So that possibility is removed.

Spike
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Old 9th August 2014, 15:15   #144
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Default Re: Common Rail : Why is cold start tougher at higher altitudes

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Finally received BG247 bottle @Rs.450 each (6 fl.oz., 177 ml, says it's good to treat 40-150 litres of diesel.
Samindra-da, any suggestion on how I can order BG247 by post? Do they even send the bottles by postal/courier? I checked their website but do not see a India address for ordering. Thanks.
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Old 9th August 2014, 15:46   #145
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Default Re: Common Rail : Why is cold start tougher at higher altitudes

I don't think they have an online ordering system at all. You could call them of course and find out.
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