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Old 21st June 2013, 16:31   #136
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Default re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

Oh Cool! Which Exide battery is it? The model I mean.

If the batteries are taken on regular intervals then it must stay OK till the warranty period ends or further may be. Where did you get the battery changed and what care are you going to take (would be great if you can share as it will be helpful to others)?

Cheers,
Anurag.
Its an Exide Champion. Costed me 3k after exchange of old battery (500 bucks). I got the battery changed at the Exide Shop in my area but they also sell other brands like Bosch and Amaron. There was another battery, Exide Max costing a bit more, only difference is that it has 24months Warrant and Guarantee but the guy said that the battery specs are the same only the warranty / guarantee conditions are different hence price was more.

From a care perspective the first thing is to ensure that i switch off everything and double check before leaving the car parked. Next is to periodically apply a little grease or jelly to the battery terminals to prevent corrosion or moisture. And if possible, i also plan to install a Battery Disconnector Switch made by Hella (costs around 250 bucks). This will ensure that battery is totally disconnected, nothing will function. It will also act a anti theft device.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 15:41   #137
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Default re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
That is one of the reasons I recommend that you make the cable yourself. The procedure is simple
. Get a pair of sturdy clamps. Thick copper is ideal.
. Get starter cable (4-8mm diameter copper core), preferably same quality as in your vehicle, but a little thicker, as you will be having longer cable.
. Go to a radiator repair person and get them soldered.
Where can I buy thick copper clamps in Delhi?
Approximately how much would these cost?
Regarding the Finolex cable - is this available at Electrical/Hardware stores?
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Old 23rd July 2013, 10:54   #138
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Default re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Where can I buy thick copper clamps in Delhi?
Approximately how much would these cost?
Regarding the Finolex cable - is this available at Electrical/Hardware stores?
Copper has become quite expensive around Rs.600/kg. Your best bet is automobile junk dealers (Mayapuri) who may have old stuff (or army surplus) lying with them. Finolex cables upto 10mm.sq are easily available at major hardware shops. To get thicker cables try major repair hubs where there are electricians and radiator repair persons (there are some at Zamrudpur, near LSR in South Delhi). You may even try truck spare parts shops, the truck starter cables are pretty long.

Another option is to get ready made cables on the Net
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_255204
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-2...977790517.html
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Produc...uctInformation
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Old 29th August 2013, 09:59   #139
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Cool re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Copper has become quite expensive around Rs.600/kg.

Another option is to get ready made cables on the Net
I am currently on a short business trip to Prague, and on a whim, looked up Auto Parts stores here. A name popped up : Autokelly. It's a chain of auto parts stores + garage with about 60+ branches across Czech Republic.
How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)-theshop.jpg
Yesterday evening, I went up to their nearest branch, and was a little disappointed to find the jumper cables on display were the usual Chinese made cable sets with brass clamps. Prices ranged from 350 CZK to 420 CZK (Rs 1250 to Rs 1500), for 350 A to 500 A.

So, I walked up to the till, and asked if they had something better (no mean feat - I can tell you because I don't understand Czech, and they don't understand English)

Anyhow, I finally wrote down 1000 A on a piece of paper, enlightenment dawned on the store clerk. He went to the back, and returned with a hefty cable - rated at 600 A. That was the highest rating he had. But it was pure Copper and not Brass. The price 924 CZK (Rs 3300) manufactured locally here- Compass

Some photos of the product...

What caught my eye at first - 100% Copper
How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)-100cu.jpg

The back of the pack
How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)-backofthepack.jpg

Comparison of the cable thickness with my fingers!
How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)-thicknessofcable.jpg

The Jaw : Notice the steel handle construction, but the actual clamp is Copper

How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)-thejaw.jpg

And yes, now I am a happy puppy.
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Old 29th August 2013, 11:03   #140
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Default re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

Excellent purchase. Copper in India is a bit more expensive as we import practically all our copper and duties & excise add up quite a bit.

That cable looks thick enough to start a large truck. I hope the length is adequate.
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Old 29th August 2013, 13:06   #141
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Default re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
I hope the length is adequate.
It is 4 metres. Reasonable length for usage I would think with the two cars parked with their heads on end.
I would have liked more length, but even with 4 metres, I think it may be a challenge to keep my suitcase limited to < 23 kg at the airport.

Hoping this purchase makes it back to India safely
Attached Thumbnails
How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)-frontview.jpg  

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Old 13th October 2014, 10:39   #142
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Default re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

The other day, when testing the headlights in the workshop, my Zen's battery drained off.
So, the mechanic took another battery and just held it in his hand upside down and touched the positive to my dead battery's positive terminal (I am not sure if he also touched the negative).
And then he asked someone to crank the engine - and voila - it started.

How safe is this method?
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Old 28th October 2015, 18:31   #143
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Default Re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

Thanks to Aditya for the pictorial guide on jump starting your car. It's been added to the opening post of this thread .
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Old 26th February 2016, 12:53   #144
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Default Push Starting an AMT!?

Now that AMTs are becoming more and more popular in the Indian Car Market, and almost every manufacturer is planning on offering one variant with an AMT option, I had this question pop up in my head that still does not have an answer.

Being the owner of a car with AMT, I'd really like to know the answer to this one - is there a way we can push start an AMT in case of issues like dead battery, etc.? Things are pretty straight forward in a manual - slot into 2nd until you gain enough momentum and then release the clutch pedal and if you did the right things at the right time, you should have a running engine... and off you go.

However, how does one achieve the same results with an AMT? Note that I am not discussing other automatic transmissions here like CVT, DSG, and other conventional ATs. The reason I'm interested in the AMT is that the AMT is essentially a manual, with an automated clutch/gear system.

I wonder if we can "push start" an AMT like this => Slot into N, start pushing the car and wait till it gains momentum. Once enough momentum is built, lightly press the brake pedal (just enough to allow the AMT to slot itself into D) and then move the gear to D (and probably M) and quickly upshift to 2nd?

Is this do able or will this cause damage to the AMT unit?

When I asked the Sales Rep about this before I bought the car, he said something so nonsensical that I didn't even bother remembering it! It was something totally absurd. Then I asked my SA during the first free service and all he had to offer was a sheepish grin with that "what sir ... you are asking such questions" kind of a facial expression.

So, here I am back to square one - can one start a car equipped with AMT by push-starting it? Is it recommended (if you are stranded and this is the only way out)? Will it damage the AMT unit? Inputs are welcome!
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Old 26th February 2016, 13:11   #145
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Default Re: Push Starting an AMT!?

I don't think it would be possible. Googled lot of links that confirmed this. You also risk ruining the transmission.
(But some links claim that you can push start if you are able to roll down a hill with at least 30 kmph.)
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible...-automatic-car
Quote:
AMT is a special breed that has many exotic implementations. It is possible, but not highly likely, that one would encounter a version that will push start. The principle is that it is a manual transmission but there is come kind of electrically or hydraulically activated coupling device (clutch) which usually requires the engine to be running in order to operate.

Last edited by jinojohnt : 26th February 2016 at 13:20.
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Old 26th February 2016, 13:44   #146
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Default Re: Push Starting an AMT!?

Forget the AMT from the equation, push starting a car with an ECU is not recommended and engine may not start, even if one tries.

I had tried push starting my i10 when the battery went dead, but never succeeded.
Battery is needed for:
1) The fuel pump that needs to build up sufficient pressure in the fuel lines.
2) The ECU itself. At below certain battery voltage, it may not even boot.
3) HT coils need to be charged for the spark plug.

The alternator can come to speed once the gear is engaged and to sustain all the above needs prolonged pushing and the risks of component damages are not worth taking.

The user manual of all the modern car cautions not to push start.

BTW, I had managed to start my Palio once by pushing. But guess I was lucky since the battery was not that really down.

When battery is down, jump start (How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)).
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Old 26th February 2016, 14:20   #147
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Default Re: Push Starting an AMT!?

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Originally Posted by bejoy View Post
Forget the AMT from the equation, push starting a car with an ECU is not recommended and engine may not start, even if one tries.
The presence of an ECU will mean that if battery is completely dead, you should not (and mostly cannot) start the engine by pushing the vehicle.

Another related thread (for motorbikes) - here (Why does my bike need a battery to run while kick-starting?)
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Old 27th February 2016, 10:59   #148
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Default Re: Push Starting an AMT!?

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Originally Posted by vsathyap View Post
I'd really like to know the answer to this one - is there a way we can push start an AMT in case of issues like dead battery, etc.?
Answer to your question in simple - Always carry a jumper cable and jump start your car if the battery is flat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsathyap View Post
Slot into N, start pushing the car and wait till it gains momentum. Once enough momentum is built, lightly press the brake pedal (just enough to allow the AMT to slot itself into D) and then move the gear to D (and probably M) and quickly upshift to 2nd?

Is this do able or will this cause damage to the AMT unit?
If the battery is down and the engine is off, nothing will happen even if you move the selector to neutral or drive. It will just be similar to operating an electrical switch in your house when the power is down. Hence, your idea wont work, or if the car has been switched off in gear, and the system has released the clutch, then you might be bombing the whole setup.

Even if your car has power to operate the TCU(which is again hydraulic) as you said the system is automated, so unless the conditions are normal why will it release the clutch? To be safe it will move to neutral or engage the clutch to prevent any incidents. Hence, push start will not work in an automatic, and worst case, you might end up in doing damage to the transmission.

Tell me this, as far as the generic implementation goes for AMT or DCT, before starting, the clutch will be engaged. Isnt it the same in the maruti AMT? Suppose you start in Drive, the clutch will be engaged right? So, even if you push the car to a speed, the clutch wont be released which will not bring the engine to life. Hope this explains
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Old 29th March 2016, 18:55   #149
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Default Re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery) - Don't use jumper cables without surge protector.

I was quite keen to buy a set of Jump Start cables for keeping as an emergency in the car.

I'm no longer keen in buying a Jumper Cable because of the following facts:

1) Jump starting a car using cables in a modern car (Electronic Control Unit -ECU equipped) can damage the electronics particularly the ECU. All cars these days have an ECU so this is a real risk.

2) The alternator can produce a very high Voltage spike which can fry the car's electronics. Even if the damage is not immediately apparent, you can expect high repair bills later due to pre-mature failure of electronic parts.

3) If you still are keen to invest in a Jumper Cable, buy one which has a surge protector circuit.
Eg: BMW and Michellin make Jumper cables with this surge protection. This is safe for use in ECU equipped cars. (link)

4) The Jumper cable should have thick guage wire (Guage 6 or preferrably Guage 4, smaller the Guage number - thicker the wire.) and should be made of copper in order to let the maximum current flow in the receiving car.

Also most of the Jumper Cables in the market come with thin wires (like guage 10). They are wrapped in thick rubber insulation to deceptively make it appear of good quality.
Copper is very expensive, so most of the manufacturers provide aluminium wires that are coated with copper, same case with the clamps too.
If you end up buying a Jumper cable with a thin wire, there is a high chance that they won't be able to supply the required current to start your car in an emergency, so it would be useless to invest in these cheap commercially available jump start cables.

In a real emergency, I believe it is simply not practical to wait holding a jumper cable hoping that you would find someone (possibly in a remote area) who would be willing to let their car be used for jump starting.

These days, the best way to Jump start your car would be to invest in a power bank (13000 mA) or higher that has a jump start lead. Its would be just the same size as a normal power bank with a 12 volt socket to connect jumper cables. This is an effective and safe way to jump start ECU equipped cars and you don't have to wait for anyone. (Example)

Whenever you Jump start a car, always ensure that you follow the steps below to avoid an explosion and acid from the battery from splashing on your face. This is a real risk while Jump Starting:

1. Connect the positive of the Dead battery to the positive of the donor battery and
2 Connect the negative of the donor battery to an exposed metal part (near the suspension or on the engine block) of the car with Dead Battery and *Never* to the negative of the Dead battery.
This is because, there is a high chance of Hydrogen gas getting accumulated particularly in a dead battery and connecting the clamp to the negative of the dead battery could result in a spark that could cause an explosion resulting in the acid in the battery splashing all over you. So you need to connect to a safe earth point (exposed metal part) away from the negative terminal.
Also it is safe to wear eye protection (like sunglasses or spectacles) when you attempt to Jump Start a vehicle for the same reason.

A word of caution on push starting:
There was a time when the older generation cars would be pushed and slipped into gear to get it started.
Unfortunately with the "modern" cars, this is no longer a safe option. All cars these days come with catalytic converters and push starting such cars would cause fuel to get into the catalytic converter and cause irreversible damage (read expensive repair bills). So don't let anyone push start your car.

Last edited by for_cars1 : 29th March 2016 at 19:10.
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Old 29th March 2016, 21:56   #150
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Default Re: How to Jump Start your car (dead battery)

I avoid jump starting by:

a) Maintaining my cars' batteries very well
b) Ensuring the battery is at >90% SOC at any time either by running the car or a bench charge
c) Replacing the battery on time. I never drag it on till it dies on me. Proactive replacement is the way to go.

While I have a set of jumper cables and a B&D battery charger that can jump start a car I never had to use them.
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