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Old 3rd September 2010, 21:17   #46
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
other noises should have more logical and obvious reasons. So hard right lock, jack up wheel, reverse rotate by hand. Observations? Wild thought:- are the wheel bearings OK?

What you described initially is classic brake fade. But bearings with play, untrue rotors etc coupled with hard usage will magnify the effects of knockoff. Just a thought.
This is the culmination of logical thoughts/trouble shooting and trying to eliminate possible causes over a period of time. If there are multiple failure of components (which are obviously dependent on one another) It is not really possible to "isolate".

And no bearings are fine. Bearing failure will have a different set of issues/symptoms to begin with.

Yes, its pretty obvious that the failure if due to "heavy" usage. That was already mentioned. I'm not sure if you read that in the thread. Rotors have been faced around 1500kms back, that too is mentioned in the thread.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 21:23   #47
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Are you skimming the rotors this time around?
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Old 3rd September 2010, 21:47   #48
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Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
This is the culmination of logical thoughts/trouble shooting and trying to eliminate possible causes over a period of time. If there are multiple failure of components (which are obviously dependent on one another) It is not really possible to "isolate".

And no bearings are fine. Bearing failure will have a different set of issues/symptoms to begin with.

Yes, its pretty obvious that the failure if due to "heavy" usage. That was already mentioned. I'm not sure if you read that in the thread. Rotors have been faced around 1500kms back, that too is mentioned in the thread.
Not failure, play. Locus of rotor then no longer true. Leading to knockoff (different from fade). Single chain of (just a wild) thought.

And yes, I read this thread from the top. From the time it was posted.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 3rd September 2010 at 22:05.
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Old 6th September 2010, 16:51   #49
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Thumbs up

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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Are you skimming the rotors this time around?
Nope, just sanded it and cleaned them. Its good now, next time there will be nothing left to do now other than replace the rotors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
@YZFRJ,
Could you post pictures of the other side of the rotor please.
Here you go...
*Yikes* Brake fade / No Brakes - Cause and Solutions-dsc03095.jpg

This is what is left of the brake pad that has done around 1900Kms (Including 2 track days)
*Yikes* Brake fade / No Brakes - Cause and Solutions-dsc03097.jpg

The new pads have been bedded-in as per the instructions.
Feels good.
Will update one I've driven some more on them.

I'd like to thanks Raghav (Ignite) and his team for getting this sorted.
Raghav has put so much time and effort to get this done.

This is the one thing I like about petrol head friendly garages.
You say something as absurd like brake not so good when I'm braking from 140+ , bang come the answer : lets see how to sort it out.

H.A.S.S guys would have replaced the entire front section.
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Old 6th September 2010, 21:27   #50
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^^^
Cant make out for certain, but rear seems to show full contact=OK. Take it that the jamming of the piston was due to wedging action, and not gumming?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 7th September 2010, 17:47   #51
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Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
I'd like to thanks Raghav (Ignite) and his team for getting this sorted.
Raghav has put so much time and effort to get this done.

This is the one thing I like about petrol head friendly garages.
You say something as absurd like brake not so good when I'm braking from 140+ , bang come the answer : lets see how to sort it out.

H.A.S.S guys would have replaced the entire front section.


How much did the labour+parts set you back by, if you don't mind?

Any idea how that would compare to the same work done at a HASS?
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Old 7th September 2010, 17:50   #52
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
the jamming of the piston was due to wedging action, and not gumming?
Err... I'm not really sure what you mean.
Can you explain a bit please.

Anyway from what I understand the "jam" was not much.
Just enough to make the rubbing sound while taking reverse.
This was not really apparent while the car was going forward.
I'm not really a technical person to explain further with the proper terminology.
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Old 7th September 2010, 21:09   #53
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How much did the labour+parts set you back by, if you don't mind?
Pads were around 6.5k + , 2k for the Caliper kit, 288/- for DOT4 fluid.

A.S.S will have hourly rates and rates for specific jobs.

For a "unique" problem like this the amount of trouble shooting and prep work done was huge. I don't want to mention something here that might be set as a "base line".

At times I was loosing my patience and was tempted to say "its clean enough, put it back on". Ignite folks are meticulous and through. As an end customer for the service I got its money well spent. (Take my word for it, literally)

Quote:
Any idea how that would compare to the same work done at a HASS?
Nope.

I don't even think A.S.S guys would have entertained this issue.
But probably I've have ended up with a brand new set of brakes and would have sold a kidney paying for it.

Last edited by yzfrj : 7th September 2010 at 21:12.
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Old 7th September 2010, 21:47   #54
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Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
Err... I'm not really sure what you mean.
Can you explain a bit please.
All that retracts the piston in a disk caliper is the flexure of the piston seals. It takes very little to jam it. Most common cause is a speck of rust, or gum formation (has to be from the brake fluid. Could never figure out the chemistry which causes it to become 'muddy', 'silty' and 'gummy'). Or if there is excessive clearance between caliper piston and bore, the piston is no longer square to the bore. Like short wide drawers which jam if not pulled square at the centre.

Would like to know your service people's assesment of the problem. More than 'this happened, and this is what we did' I would like to know 'this is why it happened, this is the sequence of what happened'.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 7th September 2010, 22:04   #55
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Riju, I am glad that you have solved the issue. I may be wrong with my assumption, but here is my thought on this issue:

The SKF brand disks are not OEM. These are disk pads that are available in any automobile shop. This is a local brand. When I went for brake Pad replacement at Bosch service center @ Kilkattalai, those guys mentioned that they dont have Bosch pads in stock and got these form the local automobile shop. When I asked for the genuinity of the brakepads, he atlast agreed that these are local pads only and not OEM ones. He also mentioned that these pads will not wear out properly. So I ended up sourcing a Hyundai genuine spare from and dealer at GP road.

May be that could have accelerated your brake fade problem. Just a guess though.
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Old 8th September 2010, 16:41   #56
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Would like to know your service people's assesment of the problem. More than 'this happened, and this is what we did' I would like to know 'this is why it happened, this is the sequence of what happened'.
Did't ask them why it failed. I'm just glad we found it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElantraGT View Post
Riju, I am glad that you have solved the issue. I may be wrong with my assumption, but here is my thought on this issue:

The SKF brand disks are not OEM.

May be that could have accelerated your brake fade problem. Just a guess though.
Hari, I know these are not OE, its something called OE approved.
Just like the Rana pads for swift, costs around 900.
OE SGP - 3.7k, MGP - 3k

OE for the OHC costs around 3k (or more depending on where you get it from) and is that genuine ? I don't know.

I've used the pads for around 1900Kms (Including 2 track days).

EDIT : You still in India ?

Last edited by yzfrj : 8th September 2010 at 16:43.
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Old 8th September 2010, 16:56   #57
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Sorry to burst the bubble, shouldn't we wait till the next track day ?

Hopefully you do some blistering Laps next time around.
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Old 8th September 2010, 17:15   #58
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Sorry to burst the bubble, shouldn't we wait till the next track day ?
Hopefully you do some blistering Laps next time around.
Can't hardly wait.
I'm 99% sure we have exorcised the brakes. 1% is for the gremlins.

But I'm not sure I'm gonna take it to track anytime soon. (complications you see ) Even if I do I'll only do a few laps. Can't really afford to screw up something else anytime soon.

PS : Bring the diesel to track next time
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Old 19th September 2010, 20:10   #59
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So whats the update on the new brakes. How'd they perform on track today?

Any reference lap times?

Shan2nu
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Old 20th September 2010, 17:38   #60
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Thumbs up Brake update...!

Brake update :

Was taking it easy for 250Kms (After the bed-in)
Went for a drive short drive (50kms) after I crossed that.

On the same day I had my first panic braking in quiet sometime.
It was afternoon empty road and I was couple of clicks more than the posted 80km/hr limit. All of a sudden an old man, lady and their son jumped onto the road from the median.

I braked and was ready to downshift. I was amazed by the way the car slowed. No drama no tyre screeching. It simply slowed down.

Blipped moved down to 3rd and I was off again.
The jumpers did't even seem alarmed as there was no "sound effects"

On the road brakes are just awesome.
No fuss no drama car just slows down.
No trye screech nothing even when you panic brake. Love it.

On the track :

Brakes are good. It was a bit smelly for a lap. Once it got heated up it was better. Now I can stop without anyfuss.

Braking is positive and very progressive.
So you can really feel what the wheels are upto.

I was slowing down easily from 140+
Its the way it slows down, no tantrums just slows down as it should. Cool

Well you can lock them up, but for this you have to be really silly with the pedal.

I still feel the need for a better rotor (for track) as I'm braking very late now and wants even more braking power. (These is nothing called Enough Power )
I'm just imagining what deadly combination this + Tarox would be

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Any reference lap times?
Did't time me yet again.
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