Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd November 2010, 12:58   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,887
Thanked: 325 Times
Default Brake pedal becoming hard

Dear all,

I have a Santro Xing 6 yrs old model, run 74k.

I am having strange problems with braking

1. Sometimes the brakes work fine
2. Other times, the brakes go hard, car doesnt pick up, it seems the car is running with handbrakes ON.
3. Brake pedal play is reduced to a large extent, such that even a small push stops the speed of the car considerably.
4. The car doesnt runs in 4th gear unless it is revved hard.
5. Sometimes, though the brakes work fine though the brake pedal play is quite large.

Have shown it to ASC, they are saying that Master Cylinder & Booster cylinder, both needs to be replaced at 8k.

Is this a correct cause and remedy ? Also, are these prices justified ?
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2010, 13:50   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,272
Thanked: 2,112 Times
Default

One of the brake callipers seem jammed. They seem to be not retracting sometimes and hence the loss in pickup/hard brake pedal and the car not running in 4th gear unless revved.

A simple opening up the callipers and servicing it should do the trick.

Go to another authorised Hyundai service station and ask for their opinion.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 03:11   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
IndrojitSircar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kolkata/Delhi
Posts: 2,263
Thanked: 113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Dear all,

I have a Santro Xing 6 yrs old model, run 74k.

I am having strange problems with braking

1. Sometimes the brakes work fine
2. Other times, the brakes go hard, car doesnt pick up, it seems the car is running with handbrakes ON.
3. Brake pedal play is reduced to a large extent, such that even a small push stops the speed of the car considerably.
4. The car doesnt runs in 4th gear unless it is revved hard.
5. Sometimes, though the brakes work fine though the brake pedal play is quite large.

Have shown it to ASC, they are saying that Master Cylinder & Booster cylinder, both needs to be replaced at 8k.

Is this a correct cause and remedy ? Also, are these prices justified ?


HI Amit ,

Firstly i would like to ask you that does 8k in the above quoted text refer to the price of the part or the milage at which it has to be replaced at ?

It is Definitely because of the brakes that is causing this problem. It may or may not be that one of the calipers is jammed. Since you say that at certain times the brake works fine it indicates that the problem lies with the booster and the master cylinder. It may also be that the rear wheel cylinders are jammed although the chances of that are low since at times the brakes do work fine. I am not sure if the booster can be could be purchased without the master cylinder or not, so you might have to change both of them.
What ever the prices that have been quoted to you include labour charges as well ? Because if you change the master cylinder and the booster the whole braking system will be serviced (Fluid part of it ).

Hyundai parts are generally at bit on the higher side in terms of their pricing. Since you don't get the genuine parts in the market, there is very limited choice a person has when he/she has to get work done on their car.
IndrojitSircar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 04:07   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,272
Thanked: 2,112 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
HI Amit ,

Firstly i would like to ask you that does 8k in the above quoted text refer to the price of the part or the milage at which it has to be replaced at ?

It is Definitely because of the brakes that is causing this problem. It may or may not be that one of the calipers is jammed. Since you say that at certain times the brake works fine it indicates that the problem lies with the booster and the master cylinder. It may also be that the rear wheel cylinders are jammed although the chances of that are low since at times the brakes do work fine. I am not sure if the booster can be could be purchased without the master cylinder or not, so you might have to change both of them.
What ever the prices that have been quoted to you include labour charges as well ? Because if you change the master cylinder and the booster the whole braking system will be serviced (Fluid part of it ).

Hyundai parts are generally at bit on the higher side in terms of their pricing. Since you don't get the genuine parts in the market, there is very limited choice a person has when he/she has to get work done on their car.
If sometimes the brake work fine, there can be nothing wrong with the brake booster or the master cylinder as if the booster is not producing enough vaccume because of a leak in it/ leak in the vaccume pipe coming from the engine etc, the brakes would never perform to its best which is not the case here as sometimes they work.

In case of a faulty master cylinder too the brakes would never perform but in his case sometimes they are working again.

I am 150% sure its one of callipers which is jamming. Do not let the Hyundai guys charge you 8 grand and parts replacement for something which can be solved in less than 1000 bucks.

Test---> Jack up the wheels when the car does not pull in 4th unless revved scenario happens, One of the wheels will not rotate freely. Voila. You got your jammed calliper.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 05:58   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,887
Thanked: 325 Times
Default

Thanks humyum, Indrojit.

The Hyundai guys have cleaned the brakes etc so I hope the caliper issue would be solved. I am yet to take a test drive after that.

Changing brake booster, master cylinder seems very costly for me at this stage especially as I have spent quite a lot over few days for my long distance trips.

Noticed that the front wheels rims become very very hot after drive while rear wheels donot show such high temperatures.

I will monitor over this weekend, then will take action as the car is needed for my daily office visits.

I will keep updated my experience, first culprit being calipers, then booster& cylinder.
I will update my experience here.
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 09:05   #6
BHPian
 
shyamhegde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 284
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Noticed that the front wheels rims become very very hot after drive while rear wheels donot show such high temperatures.
Could be bearing issue? lift the car using the jack and check if wheels rotate freely . Wheel bearing are expensive to replace, as I have seen. My friend paid exceeding 3K for such replacement on his Accent.
shyamhegde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 13:41   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
IndrojitSircar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kolkata/Delhi
Posts: 2,263
Thanked: 113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
If sometimes the brake work fine, there can be nothing wrong with the brake booster or the master cylinder as if the booster is not producing enough vaccume because of a leak in it/ leak in the vaccume pipe coming from the engine etc, the brakes would never perform to its best which is not the case here as sometimes they work.

In case of a faulty master cylinder too the brakes would never perform but in his case sometimes they are working again.

I am 150% sure its one of callipers which is jamming. Do not let the Hyundai guys charge you 8 grand and parts replacement for something which can be solved in less than 1000 bucks.
If its one of the Caliper Pistons getting jammed then it would not free on its own. If you have ever worked on a braking system on your own you would know that if something gets jammed it will not free up on its on. The master cylinder as i said in my previous post seems to be alright. It is the booster that is playing up.
IndrojitSircar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 15:05   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,887
Thanked: 325 Times
Default

Indrojit, thanks for your inputs. If the brake booster is playing up and needs to be replaced, as you said, then in that case, Master cylinder needs to be changed as well.

Also, the costs at Hyundai ASC as quoted at 8k, is it justified ? Seems like there is too much work in replacing it with removal of lots of components, which means it should be done by people who know their job well.
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 15:55   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
IndrojitSircar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kolkata/Delhi
Posts: 2,263
Thanked: 113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Indrojit, thanks for your inputs. If the brake booster is playing up and needs to be replaced, as you said, then in that case, Master cylinder needs to be changed as well.

Also, the costs at Hyundai ASC as quoted at 8k, is it justified ? Seems like there is too much work in replacing it with removal of lots of components, which means it should be done by people who know their job well.
I am not sure if you can buy a Booster by itself without the master cylinder. You could try finding out in the market. As i mentioned before Hyundai parts are generally on the higher side. You could go with a compatible booster available in the market but it will not be a genuine part. Some compatible spares work almost as good as original ones. Think about it and don't prolong taking the decision very much but at the same time don't make any hasty decisions as well.
IndrojitSircar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2010, 16:25   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,887
Thanked: 325 Times
Default

update: have shown it to another Hyundai ASC in Gurgaon, he is saying he will check calipers and if needed replace, and will check on wheel cylinders (not sure what is that) - both and then this problem should be solved.

As of my search on the internet, brake booster generally makes the brakes go very smooth to the extent that pumping the pedal the brakes dont apply. In my case, its exactly the opposite, it seems the car is dragging on with brakes.

Wanted the ASC to work on it today, but he asked me to come tomorrow. 100 kms to be driven till tomorrow morning. Hope tomorrow the issue will be solved.

______________________________________________

Calipers
1. Check the components of the caliper for any wear.
2. Look at the metal spring where the brake pads sit.
3. Apply tension to the pad and see whether you hear a pop. If you do, the brake pad is moving too much on the bracket. Replace the caliper. This could help the hard brake pedal.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4453827_diag...#ixzz14mWd0WHh

Last edited by tanwaramit : 9th November 2010 at 16:44.
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2010, 16:41   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,272
Thanked: 2,112 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
update: have shown it to another Hyundai ASC in Gurgaon, he is saying he will check calipers and if needed replace, and will check on brake cylinders (not sure what is that) - both and then this problem should be solved.

As of my search on the internet, brake booster generally makes the brakes go very smooth to the extent that pumping the pedal the brakes dont apply. In my case, its exactly the opposite, it seems the car is dragging on with brakes.

Wanted the ASC to work on it today, but he asked me to come tomorrow. 100 kms to be driven till tomorrow morning. Hope tomorrow the issue will be solved.

______________________________________________

Calipers
1. Check the components of the caliper for any wear.
2. Look at the metal spring where the brake pads sit.
3. Apply tension to the pad and see whether you hear a pop. If you do, the brake pad is moving too much on the bracket. Replace the caliper. This could help the hard brake pedal.

How to Diagnose a Hard Brake Pedal | eHow.com
I told ya, No need to replace the booster or Master cylinder. It is 100% the brake callipers. The brake cylinders are for the rear drums, not that costly.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2010, 10:47   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,887
Thanked: 325 Times
Default

Update on my experience.

1. Last update mentioned above, had shown the car to the Service Advisor in Gurgaon, who said that the issue maybe with calipers and brake cylinders may be changed, since changing would take time, he asked me to get the car next day morning
2. Couldnt go next day, went on T+2 day, the technical person (labor) came and after hearing my problem said the problem is due to Brake Booster and it is best to replace Master cylinder too else, the problem may reoccur. Service Advisor came back with "parts not available" statement and said, it will take 2 days for parts to come from Manesar.

3. Went over weekend to my neighbourhood service center, and dropped the car, they changed, brake booster and brake assembly, refilled brake oil. Total cost - 6289.

Car is working fine now it seems, havent taken very long drive, too early to comment, hope, the problem is solved.

Thanks to Humyum and Indrojit for sharing your inputs throughout.
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2010, 11:09   #13
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,008
Thanked: 3,555 Times
Default

Rs.8000 at A$$ and 6289 at a private garage sounds about right. So you got a good price. Hope the parts were OE.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2010, 15:12   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
tanwaramit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli
Posts: 1,887
Thanked: 325 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Rs.8000 at A$$ and 6289 at a private garage sounds about right. So you got a good price. Hope the parts were OE.
May be my earlier message was not clear. Apologies for the same.

I went to the same service station who had given me estimates of 8k. Its a Hyundai Authorised Service Station, since they know me and my car very well, trusted them with the job. So all genuine

The Service Advisor had put the rates for the components at 10k in the job card, when asked, he said, its the max, dont worry, it will be lesser than this.
tanwaramit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 04:59   #15
BHPian
 
ghpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 869
Thanked: 192 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
May be my earlier message was not clear. Apologies for the same.

I went to the same service station who had given me estimates of 8k. Its a Hyundai Authorised Service Station, since they know me and my car very well, trusted them with the job. So all genuine

The Service Advisor had put the rates for the components at 10k in the job card, when asked, he said, its the max, dont worry, it will be lesser than this.
how come they make a invoice and then discount it for more than 30%, if this discount is company improved I am sure most hyundai customers would like to have their next invoice adjusted as H.A.S.S. is known for expensive billing already.
ghpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2T Oil for Two Strokes becoming hard to source? anjan_c2007 Motorbikes 12 24th June 2017 19:45
Accelerator Pedal becoming stiff / sticky ajitkommini Technical Stuff 24 9th January 2017 12:05
Fiesta Gear shift becoming hard! talkingpebbles Technical Stuff 20 24th August 2009 14:51
Need Help: Brake pedal pulsating!!! stevie Technical Stuff 4 27th October 2006 20:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:23.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks