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Old 7th December 2010, 14:17   #16
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
How does the Fiesta/Figo TDCi intake work? I see some pipe running from turbo, one from the left fender.

Attachment 465322

edit: pics of the ikon TDCi above and Figo below.

Attachment 465341
Attachment 465342
The pipe from the left side of the engine feeds the airbox, from there the pipe goes to turbo compressor inlet on the left side, then the turbo compressor outlet goes into the box which says "Duratorq Ford TDCI", and from the box it goes into the manifold.

CPH: What is the purpose of the "Duratorq Ford TDCI" box in the route? In some other forums that box was said to be a noise suppresor. But why? Or is it a resonator, if yes isn't it strange to put a resonator after the turbo?

In the Figo engine the box must be hidden from the view under the large plastic panel.

Last edited by Sankar : 7th December 2010 at 14:20.
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Old 7th December 2010, 16:05   #17
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
The pipe from the left side of the engine feeds the airbox, from there the pipe goes to turbo compressor inlet on the left side, then the turbo compressor outlet goes into the box which says "Duratorq Ford TDCI", and from the box it goes into the manifold.

CPH: What is the purpose of the "Duratorq Ford TDCI" box in the route? In some other forums that box was said to be a noise suppresor. But why? Or is it a resonator, if yes isn't it strange to put a resonator after the turbo?

In the Figo engine the box must be hidden from the view under the large plastic panel.
It might appear to be after the torbu, but isn't. The arrangements are rather poor. The set-up in the pictures is technically wrong, but looks the best and is the cheapest to make it low on noise.

There is alot of room for improvement.
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Old 7th December 2010, 17:13   #18
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
It might appear to be after the torbu, but isn't. The arrangements are rather poor. The set-up in the pictures is technically wrong, but looks the best and is the cheapest to make it low on noise.

There is alot of room for improvement.
It does look complicated and convoluted, i'm sure a better intake would free up this engine. Vid are you listening

I was referring to this box which comes after the turbo:
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Inside:
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Source (Lot more pics there):
Turbo Diesel Owners Club UK - Diesel Tuning and Discussion • View topic - My investigative pics (1.4 TDCi cooler fitment thinking)

I registered there last year but haven't since followed up as i didnt get a TDCi
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Old 7th December 2010, 17:34   #19
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Originally Posted by kaustubh_vaze View Post
Hey CPH,
In the Palio 1.6, we can see the air intake take a complete U turn just before the intake manifold. I think that is not good for the car. Routing it straighter to the left side of the car makes more sense I guess. Your thoughts?
The best option is what you thought. Installing the battery in place where the stock filter box is, helps in having the straight through intake pipe going down till the point where it reaches behind the fog lamp had worked better when I tried this back in 2001. I removed the foglamps and covered that area with the mesh grill which allowed more air to flow in. Overall It made a lot of difference in low end torque. The intake pipe was 3" with K&N open filter with length of 4.5".
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Old 8th December 2010, 02:10   #20
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
The best option is what you thought. Installing the battery in place where the stock filter box is, helps in having the straight through intake pipe going down till the point where it reaches behind the fog lamp had worked better when I tried this back in 2001. I removed the foglamps and covered that area with the mesh grill which allowed more air to flow in. Overall It made a lot of difference in low end torque. The intake pipe was 3" with K&N open filter with length of 4.5".
I would be very careful with moving the battery. You can easily bring it in a position that can have lethal effects in case of accident.

3" pipe is already too big. The pipe diameter should not exceed 60mm apart from near the filter..
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Old 8th December 2010, 08:15   #21
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

CPH, what do you think about this stock AStar air intake? Unlike other modern airboxes this looks simple. But the air intake pipe instead of being simply straight has a series of minor bends in it, that looks purpose fully done. Why so? Do you think a revised intake would be better in this car too?

Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision-img_0025.jpg
Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision-img_0028.jpg
Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision-img_0030.jpg
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Old 8th December 2010, 16:41   #22
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

If you can open the air intake straight ahead bypassing the radiator air it will be having a good effect i think.
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Old 8th December 2010, 17:00   #23
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

Hey CPH,
Hypothetically could a Telescoping Air Intake be benefitial over a larger RPM range?
Long [and slightly conical] for Low RPM
Shot [and cylindrical] for High RPM
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Old 8th December 2010, 23:32   #24
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

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Originally Posted by Sprucegoose View Post
Hey CPH,
Hypothetically could a Telescoping Air Intake be benefitial over a larger RPM range?
Long [and slightly conical] for Low RPM
Shot [and cylindrical] for High RPM
If you are talking about variable lengths, then yes, most definitely. F1 engines use variable length ITB setups, the proper pinnacle of NA induction, even higher than a regular ITB setup. As the revs go up, the runner length is shortened automatically. Getting something like that to work, however, will require more than what your average tuner or mechanic knows.

I've dabbled in designing such a setup in CAD but actually building something like that requires access to high precision machinery that would quickly put the build out of reach of most engine builders and hobbyist tuners and enthusiasts. Further, controlling the intake automatically via the ECU's electronics will require lots of time and experimentation. Such a setup is possible through Honda ECUs if you understand them properly, but most other standalones would not be capable of doing something like this unless the feature was built-in or if the ECU offers specific outputs precisely for this purpose.

Last edited by pranavt : 8th December 2010 at 23:39.
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Old 9th December 2010, 18:46   #25
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Installing the battery in place where the stock filter box is, helps in having the straight through intake pipe going down till the point where it reaches behind the fog lamp had worked better when I tried this back in 2001. I removed the foglamps and covered that area with the mesh grill which allowed more air to flow in. Overall It made a lot of difference in low end torque. The intake pipe was 3" with K&N open filter with length of 4.5".
If such minor modification ( Atleast for the manufacturer) could bring in amazing changes in the overall performance, Then what exactly is stopping these manufacturers from doing it? Is it the cost or less dedication put in?

I strongly believe that there are some serious points missing here!
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Old 10th December 2010, 04:10   #26
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

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Originally Posted by aa_asif View Post
If such minor modification ( Atleast for the manufacturer) could bring in amazing changes in the overall performance, Then what exactly is stopping these manufacturers from doing it? Is it the cost or less dedication put in?

I strongly believe that there are some serious points missing here!
It is purely money. A company like Volkswagen group produces around 18,000 cars a day. Saving 1 rupee for each car is the equivalent of about 50 Nanos every year.
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Old 10th December 2010, 10:17   #27
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

Hi CPH: Thanks for starting a new thread on air intakes, no doubt its a good read and lots of information.

I drive a Swift VDI and looking for an air intake the intent is to improve low end torque (as turbo kicks in @ 1800 RPM)

Initially I was thinking to go for 57i but doesnt seem to be good option and with Indian road conditions would not prefer to go with Apollo kit as well and again will second your opinion.

And not so happy about the stock intake...
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Old 10th December 2010, 11:49   #28
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

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Originally Posted by sameerpb View Post
Hi CPH: Thanks for starting a new thread on air intakes, no doubt its a good read and lots of information.

I drive a Swift VDI and looking for an air intake the intent is to improve low end torque (as turbo kicks in @ 1800 RPM)

Initially I was thinking to go for 57i but doesnt seem to be good option and with Indian road conditions would not prefer to go with Apollo kit as well and again will second your opinion.

And not so happy about the stock intake...
The 57i is certainly the better option than the Apollo. However it is not the best optuion either.

Low end torque can be improved fairly easily by removing the airbox and pipes up to the turbo and replace it with a properly designed rather short intake.
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Old 10th December 2010, 12:08   #29
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

@CPH - Thanks for starting separate thread on this. I remember reading detailed discussions on the same subject in another thread. I was looking to boost the low-end driveability of my mpfi esteem and thats what the other thread was about i think. But it got too technical for me after a point since it went into remapping ECUs. This one is lucid and much more simpler.

So for normally aspirated engines, a longer intake pipe ensures better torque and shorter one ensures better top-end. Is this correct? Are there "significant" gains at the lower end of the torque curve or is it difficult to generalize this. I'm trying to boost the low-end driveability of my esteem.
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Old 10th December 2010, 17:10   #30
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Default Re: Aspects of designing an Air Intake Revision

@pranavt: ahhh.. cool, i know it'll be tough to implement was just considering a hypothetical situation.

Didn't know that F1 engines had them.

I was also thinking about concentric piping for the intake.
A thin one & a co-axially aligned thicker one.
There will be a shutter type valve between the 2 pipes.
The Thin Pipe is always open, but the thicker one opens only after a particular RPM.

again i have no intention of implementing it, was just wondering.

Last edited by Sprucegoose : 10th December 2010 at 17:15.
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