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Old 18th January 2011, 01:07   #76
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

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Originally Posted by lynx View Post
Yes, I asked that of course. He told me he doesn't know and he asked me to explain it since no one except me can say what happened in the 140 km after the last service. I didn't know what he expected me to say.

As far as he is concerned, it is clear to him that it was not due to manufacturing defect or poor workmanship because of the four points I have listed so it would not be considered under warranty.
I am not talking theory here. I have nailerd people in court before and know this business very well.

First of all sit down and write letters. Phone conversation always can be twisted.

If you speak on the phone then make sure you get vthis in writing. Make a note about whom you spoke when including the relevant phone numbers.

When you take point 1 to 4 as not the cause what on earth is then the cause? This information is only of use if you have it in writing.

Once you have it writing you can nail them.

If you want to get it sorted then you better listen to what I tell you. I have not lost a single case as yet.
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Old 18th January 2011, 13:15   #77
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

My guess is there was nothing wrong with the engine in the first place. These guys dismantled the entire thing without (a) asking your approval (b) waiting for insurance surveyor. All this points to only one thing. Whatever happened was the fault of the A.S.S. and now they dismantled the engine to hide their mistake.
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Old 18th January 2011, 14:06   #78
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

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Chetan,

No he didn't say that. He said he did not know how it could have happened and told me only I could know. He says as long as there was no leak on the floor where I had parked after the last service (the day before) and no oil lamp indicator on the dashboard, it proves that it was not poor workmanship.
Lynx, the point here is, it's the service guys' responsibility to investigate and figure out the cause of damage. You might give inputs/observations, but ultimately, you cannot be expected to do all the diagnosis by yourself. That's their job, not yours.

Their current approach 'I can't figure out what happened so it must be your fault' is downright criminal. They're trying to hide their incompetence by shifting blame to the unsuspecting user, you.

As CPH suggested, pleas get everything in writing, from everyone who attends you vehicle. Verbal assurances mean nothing, and can easily be reneged on.
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Old 18th January 2011, 17:50   #79
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

Yes, I have written a lot of letters already. So far the only possible written replies I have managed to get (all after a lot of persuasion and a lot of travel on my part):

1. From the service center stating that the repair would not be covered under warranty because of "evidence of impact".

2. From the regional office (south) stating that the repair would not be under warranty because there is no manufacturing defect.

3. From the insurance company stating that there is no evidence of impact to the oil sump or any engine related parts.

I have also taken the photographs. The lawyer says this is enough so I have told them to start the repair work today. I'll be filing the suit the day after I take delivery of the car. Not quite sure of what the outcome will be though.

CPH, Chetan what else should I get in writing?
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Old 18th January 2011, 20:38   #80
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

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Originally Posted by lynx View Post
Yes, I have written a lot of letters already. So far the only possible written replies I have managed to get (all after a lot of persuasion and a lot of travel on my part):

1. From the service center stating that the repair would not be covered under warranty because of "evidence of impact".

2. From the regional office (south) stating that the repair would not be under warranty because there is no manufacturing defect.

3. From the insurance company stating that there is no evidence of impact to the oil sump or any engine related parts.

I have also taken the photographs. The lawyer says this is enough so I have told them to start the repair work today. I'll be filing the suit the day after I take delivery of the car. Not quite sure of what the outcome will be though.

CPH, Chetan what else should I get in writing?
If you have this in writing then you have a good start.

The next step is that you request evidence of how they could have come to the conclusion of all four points. Aske them in writing for a copy of the test report. give them no more than 8 days to reply on receipt of the letter. These letters are best sent recorded.

Anything you can from anyone of the involved parties can be used in your favour.

Once you have more info/evidence, feel free to contact me.
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Old 18th January 2011, 20:45   #81
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

So I will write back to the regional office asking for a test report and how they came to the conclusion that there was no manufacturing defect? By 'record', do you mean an electronic record (email) or a physical one? If the latter, I can send it by registered post. But how can I prove what letter I sent in that registered post? So I suppose the former would be the better bet?

Will let you know once they send me a reply.
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Old 18th January 2011, 21:06   #82
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

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Originally Posted by lynx View Post
So I will write back to the regional office asking for a test report and how they came to the conclusion that there was no manufacturing defect? By 'record', do you mean an electronic record (email) or a physical one? If the latter, I can send it by registered post. But how can I prove what letter I sent in that registered post? So I suppose the former would be the better bet?

Will let you know once they send me a reply.
Accept no e-mail and try not to send e-mails. Everything on paper and signed. I don't know how strong an e-mail is as evidence in an Indian court. Even if it is fairly strong, paper is stronger and nobody can pass the bucket on paper.
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Old 19th January 2011, 10:59   #83
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

What the surveyor said is exactly opposite to what your service centre has said. This is proof enough and we know whose lying on this one. I hope you get all that is needed in writing from the surveyor itself. That will add value to your case. From the photographs there doesn't seem to be any evidence of impact on the sump. If there is some part no. on this, please get it in writing from your service centre that this part was replaced in your vehicle bearing regn no XX -XX-XX-XXXX due to damage. Now the onus will be on the A.S.S. to prove the damage to that part (which is what they claim to avoid warranty repair) which is clearly not there.I hate it when manufacturers side with the dealer when the problem is clearly due to a shoddy job on the dealer's part.

Last edited by longhorn : 19th January 2011 at 11:10.
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Old 19th January 2011, 13:38   #84
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

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Originally Posted by lynx View Post
So I will write back to the regional office asking for a test report and how they came to the conclusion that there was no manufacturing defect? By 'record', do you mean an electronic record (email) or a physical one? If the latter, I can send it by registered post. But how can I prove what letter I sent in that registered post? So I suppose the former would be the better bet?

Will let you know once they send me a reply.
CPH is providing some really good advice. Good job sir

Lynx: From your post above, it's clear that the A.S.S. and insurance people have contradictory views on what happened.

What you should ideally aim to get, is a complete description of how they reached their conclusions, both A.S.S and the insurance guys.

CPH is correct in saying that a signed/stamped letter is better than an email. If you can get both, that's even better. I reiterate, insist on getting everything officially signed/stamped, if on paper.
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Old 19th January 2011, 18:02   #85
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

Seems quite simple really- but don't know how our legal system (or it's capacity to understand basic Law and it's application in this arena) would be able to render justice.:

The Insurance company Says in writing (i.e Credible Evidence).. That there is no evidence of impact...

The A.S.S. acting as agent of Hyndai (and therefore authorized to examine and diagnose the fault- in relation to a warranty claim) have stated in writing.......Evidence of impact.

Since the A.S.S. (i.e acting on behalf of the manufacturer) have provided a diagnosis
and the manufacturer- clearly has relied only on this to conclude that there is no manufacturing defect---- you would have a clear action both in Criminal and Civil proceedings!

Normally I would have advised a High Court Action-- as opposed to lower courts, consumer courts etc..--- (certainly in the UK or indeed Europe this would be the case.) ..... And this action would be agains't... The A.S.S., i.e. the FIRS'T RESPONDENT!!

However, the problem now is that you've begun destroying your own evidence!!

The most crucial evidence is the Engine in the state that it was in when the Event occured. Once the Engine is repaired, the evidence is gone!! except in the Word of the Person who has repaired it-------- which happens to be the person that you intend to sue!!!--- in short he can say what he want's afterward- even invent anything-------- AND THE BURDEN OF PROOF- IS ON Lynx ( the accusing party)

I.e. If there was a manufacturing defect----- it's gone!
And the A.S.S will very easily argue that if it was a loose Oil-Plug ( they will say that the Impact damage issue was just an initial assesment and subsequently not confirmed etc.. etc..)-- it could not be due to their workmanship since the engine failure happened- some 2k kms later.

You haven't got evidence of the actual damage-- i.e pictures etc.. or an independent examination etc of the crank, block conrods etc..And on top of it you have PAID THE A.S.S--- which means.. you have entrusted your faith in him........ Bad Faith Evidence is going to be very difficult to find--- if the Primary Evidence is gone!!
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Old 20th January 2011, 02:41   #86
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

I will send the letter by registered post tomorrow morning (they have not replied to my email yet either).

About the evidence being destroyed if it is repaired, my lawyer says it wouldn't be. The final bill is evidence enough, along with the letters from the company denying warranty when there is no evidence of any damage by user. And of course it is not practical to keep the car in the service center for 6-18 months.
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Old 20th January 2011, 22:08   #87
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

Went through the entire thread.

1) Frame bent. How can it lead to sudden loss of oil. Were you made aware of frame bent AND oil leak ?

2) There is absolutely no damage on sump. The drain plug thread is also not looking damaged with damaged thread or anything.

3) What happened in 140 kms. is what A.S & S. is asking. Well, you were driving the car <100 kmph. Thats it.

They opened the engine without your consent ? And why not wait for inspection from insurance ? Fishy things here.

Frame wont get bent so easily.

About GC, well we have Baleno and covered more than 45K kms. Baleno GC is a bit lower than Accent as per my observation.

The very fact that the A.S.S center did not wait for inspection and opened your engine without your consent indicates that the dealer/s is/are wrong.
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Old 21st January 2011, 18:24   #88
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

Received this via email from Hyundai Regional Office today as a reply to my asking them to give me in writing how they came to the conclusion above.

Quote:
As regards to your concern, we would like to confirm to you that your vehicle was attended to and delivered to you, after general check up, in roadworthy condition, from our dealer workshop, DSC Hyundai, Chennai on December 25, 2010. Also, there was no oil leakage or low oil indication in your vehicle as confirmed by your goodself, during your visit to South Regional Office.

Further, we would once again like to confirm to you that there exists no manufacturing defect in your car. Hence all necessary repairs/ replacement of parts, if any, have to be carried out on chargeable basis only.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 13:31   #89
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

If there was no low oil warning from the moment the oil was replaced till the moment of the incident, the only logical conclusion is all the oil was drained out at the time of the incident. Now, you can either approach Hyundai and ask them to prove there was an impact and then claim insurance based on the evidence Hyundai provides you with, or ask Hyundai to cover it under warranty because they failed to prove it was not due to any defect or oversight on their part.

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Old 23rd January 2011, 14:38   #90
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Default Re: Severe engine damage in my Hyundai Accent

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Received this via email from Hyundai Regional Office today as a reply to my asking them to give me in writing how they came to the conclusion above.
AmI right to assume that you wrote to them a letter and they replied by e-mail? If so write another letter telling them that you have written to them and you expect a bit more respect and they better reply to you by letter.

You refer to km services. They refer to actual dates, which makes it a bit confusing. Can you confirm what actually happened on the 25th of December. Was it the service day or the day the vehicle was brought the workkshop or one of the following days? Whatever it was you have now something to tear them apart. This is what I was waiting for. Now it is ping pong time.
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