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Old 2nd January 2010, 11:50   #16
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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
What does the Diesel fuel filter do, and why is it so pricey (compared to a Petrol filter)? My fuel filter was supposed to be changed at 10k, but the Service Advisor just cleaned it, and said a change is not required now - I did not have the time to wait until it gets changed, so let it pass...
Let me briefly explain about the Diesel fuel filter. I will talk about the CRDI diesel filter as its different from the non-CRDI filter. The fuel filter is fitted for only one reason i.e. to protect the fuel injection system.


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- Diesel filter acts as one of the first line of defence against fuel contaminants.

- It can filter as small as upto 2 micron of particles

- The filtration protect the Common Rail Fuel Injection from water and particle contamination which if not filtered can completely wear out a fuel pump.

- Effective filtration can extend the life of your fuel pump by upto 6 times (as per tests by Delphi)

Seeing the above, I would suggest everyone to change the filter at recommended intervals and use the Original Spares only.

Source : Delphi

Last edited by Dippy : 2nd January 2010 at 13:16. Reason: Moved to a diesel maintenance thread hence editing the off topic line. Thanks.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 17:06   #17
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The question of "Diesel engines cost more to maintain" is a bit hard to answer.
My two cents would factor in:
1) In India decent fuel is hard to come by, especially on the highway.
2) Diesel engines are more sensitive to bad maintainence than petrol engines.
3) Diesels then to age faster if they are not used often.

Factors 1 & 2 are even more so for the newer generation engines.

But if I were driving around the world; I would think a di engine is much more reliable assuming your maintainence is good and fuel supply could be questionable. Quite like our Indian highways.
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Old 29th March 2010, 00:42   #18
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I guess the key is the fuel quality then. Though I have been smirked at for this, I always refill at Shell in spite of the higher cost, and feed in only normal Diesel. Even my fuel filter has not been changed till now - running at 17100 ( I wanted it changed at 10k, but SA said its not required now, and we can change at 20k - though I did not approve of this!). And feel a marked difference if I fill elsewhere (non-Shell) when I have to during highway rides.
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Old 29th March 2010, 21:53   #19
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May be silly - why water accumulates in diesel filter?
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Old 29th March 2010, 22:57   #20
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Originally Posted by gaddiwale View Post
May be silly - why water accumulates in diesel filter?
Water enters into the underground storage tanks. the filter has a water seperator which prevents it from going into the fuel pumps and injection system
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Old 29th March 2010, 23:00   #21
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Non CRDi engines last much longer than CRDis. Skoda Octavia/Laura and Mitsu Lancer are the only diesel engine cars that do not use CRDi technology. We read about an Octi in Western Asia which logged 6.5 lakh KMs and is still going strong. And I have seen two Lancers which have crossed 5 lakh mark without needing engine rebore/overhaul. In contrast many Accent CRDis required major engine rebore/overhaul/pump failures around just 1 lakh mark. We have to see how Verna and Fiat multijet engines perform post-2 lakh mark.
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Old 30th March 2010, 00:00   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya View Post
Team : We all always hear and read that Diesel Engines need maintenance and are costly to maintain in the long run.
But, should we revise this statement, taking into the consideration the today's generation of Advanced Diesel Engines?

New generation engines are Less Noisy, more fuel efficient, produce more torque, are more durable.

Let us thrash the statement that "Diesel engines cost more to maintain" by brainstorming on this topic.

Surya

As mentioned by Leop, diesels are more sensitive to bad maintenance than petrol units. If diesels are not maintained per the recommended intervals, costly repairs will follow.

New generation diesels are even more sensitive to bad maintenance and will cost even more to repair. Durability of the pollution control equipment is an expensive proposition. Unfortunately, the new generation diesel engines probably will cost more to maintain than their gasoline counterparts.

The new ultra low sulphur diesel fuels lack the lubricity of standard diesel fuel, which can greatly reduce fuel pump life. I put about 100ml of 2T oil with every fill up to keep the pump lubricated.

@ph03n!x: Get a new service advisor. Cleaning a diesel filter instead of replacement is just asking for trouble.

The good thing about diesel is that fuel quality just does not matter much. You can fill up anywhere without any worries. No need for branded fuels, etc.
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Old 30th March 2010, 02:03   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
As mentioned by Leop, diesels are more sensitive to bad maintenance than petrol units. If diesels are not maintained per the recommended intervals, costly repairs will follow.

New generation diesels are even more sensitive to bad maintenance and will cost even more to repair. Durability of the pollution control equipment is an expensive proposition. Unfortunately, the new generation diesel engines probably will cost more to maintain than their gasoline counterparts.
Well, to quote an example, KPZen has been spending about 3000 bucks (for paid service after the 30000 KM free services) every 10,000 KM, and his Getz CRDi has crossed 50k without any problems at all. We also have Elantra CRDis with nearly 1.5 lakh KM on the clock without any engine jobs. So the key is regular maintanence - which is not costly at all. In fact changing the Engine Oil, oil filter, air filter and fuel filter at at least the scheduled intervals would be good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
The new ultra low sulphur diesel fuels lack the lubricity of standard diesel fuel, which can greatly reduce fuel pump life. I put about 100ml of 2T oil with every fill up to keep the pump lubricated.
This is surprising - is it advisable to add 2T oil with Diesel? Has anyone else tried this, especially on a CRDi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
@ph03n!x: Get a new service advisor. Cleaning a diesel filter instead of replacement is just asking for trouble.
He is actually a good guy. He was so apologetic, and he would offer to change the filter whenever I get to see him / talk to him. As I am already nearing my next service, I keep pushing it until then - so you gotta be blaming me more!!
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Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
The good thing about diesel is that fuel quality just does not matter much. You can fill up anywhere without any worries. No need for branded fuels, etc.
On the contrary, I have felt that the fuel quality makes a marked difference. When I fill at random pumps during highway long drives, the turbo lag is omnipresent and it takes ages to hit the turbo if you are at 1500 RPM in 4th - but if am on Shell, it is pretty smooth cruising. Even @Anju, who has a Getz CRDi, had posted the same experience with Shell vs other. Worse still, pollutants in the fuel have led to behaviour like turbo not kicking in, smoking, stuttering, etc.

While I am posting mostly from my experience and that of others with Getz / Verna CRDi, I am guessing the same should apply for other CRDi mills too.
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Old 30th March 2010, 19:55   #24
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Originally Posted by deutscheafrikar View Post
Water enters into the underground storage tanks. the filter has a water seperator which prevents it from going into the fuel pumps and injection system
Thanks. I got the explanation from a website www.eesiflo.com (EESIFLO has developed a device that will measure both “dry” diesel and water contaminated diesel in either ppm levels or percent water levels.)

"The natural properties of diesel fuel make moisture related problems more critical in diesel equipment. Diesel fuel is heavier than gasoline, therefore the volatility (ability to vaporize) of diesel fuel is much lower than gasoline This lower volatility allows air and moisture to infiltrate the diesel fuel in both vehicle and bulk storage tanks much faster than gasoline. Water condensation in diesel fuel storage tanks is a routine problem that must be solved by all users of diesel fuels. The longer the fuel is stored, the larger the problems become."

"Being less refined than gasoline, diesel fuel will hold a much larger amount of water in suspension. This suspended water can cause severe problems with water separators installed on the vehicle as well causing the fuel injector tips to explode resulting in extensive repair costs."

So I think one should buy diesel from pumps which has high trun over. And may be this is one more reason that people who run their vehicle minimum should avoid buying CRDi engine cars.
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Old 30th March 2010, 21:43   #25
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Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
The new ultra low sulphur diesel fuels lack the lubricity of standard diesel fuel, which can greatly reduce fuel pump life. I put about 100ml of 2T oil with every fill up to keep the pump lubricated.
Am doing this on old school padmini diesel and Ford endura 1.8D engines. Yes, there is an inherent smoothness in the engine while using 2T mixing. But not recommended for CRDe mills because of the presence of CATCON

From my personal observation, diesel engine option is the best for those who can keep their car running non-stop. I mean covering 2 to 3 lakh kms in five year ownership. Almost all of the cars i knew (any engine, be it fiat/ford) need no internal maintenance at all, except for a regular oil change. Also, one can prolong oil change interval to 10k km for sure if the running is on a daily high.

Highway run diesels with more than 1L km on odo is a much better engine to maintain than ~50k city run diesels.

Last edited by ramzsys : 30th March 2010 at 21:50.
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Old 30th March 2010, 21:59   #26
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Diesels will easily outlast the petrols if maintained properly. Oil change every 5 thousand kilometers, Not revving when engine when cold and a minute idle before shutting the engine down in a turbo diesel will keep everything in check.

We had a 1998 Tata Sumo which my uncle used to drive around 100 kilometers plus everyday and he knew jack about maintaining a car, let alone a diesel car.

Still the car did 1 Lakh 50 thousand kilometers when he sold it.
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Old 30th March 2010, 23:29   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum
Oil change every 5 thousand kilometers, Not revving when engine when cold and a minute idle before shutting the engine down in a turbo diesel will keep everything in check.
I have a friend who followed this religiously with his common rail. But still, his engine blew at 83,000kms and he sold the car.
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Old 30th March 2010, 23:49   #28
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
I have a friend who followed this religiously with his common rail. But still, his engine blew at 83,000kms and he sold the car.
What car was that? And blew up in the engine?

Is it the infamous Accent CRDi we are talking here? If so, then no point - we know that that engine has a genetic problem around 80k
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Old 2nd July 2010, 13:54   #29
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Default Diesel engined cars - Running in, operating and maintaining

Since I am new to Diesel engines, I have always wondered how these are different from Petrol engines. How do I break in a Diesel engined car and how do I run and maintain a Diesel car. I saw a lot of threads about breaking in cars generally, maintaining and running cars generally but nothing specifically on Diesel engined cars. That was when I thought I should start this thread specifically on Diesel engined cars.

@ Mods - If you feel this is not appropriate and has to be merged please do so. Thanks!

The first on tips for maintaining a Diesel engine is from an article by Jason Lancaster which can be found here:

Six Tips for People New To Diesel Engines - Onlineearnings - Article Board

The next on running in Diesel engined cars can be found here:

How to PROPERLY break in a diesel engine. Part 1. - TDR Roundtable

How to PROPERLY break in a diesel engine. Part 2 - TDR Roundtable

I found both of these quite useful. The articles seem to confirm the view that Diesel engines take a good 10,000 miles plus to break in fully, why fuel filters checks are important on account of Diesel containing water, why Diesel engines need to be sufficiently warmed up before they start performing well, why oil levels need to be checked regularly even between services intervals. Why RPMs need to be varied and you need to drive in the peak torque range to break in the engine etc.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 16:39   #30
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Our preferred mechanic opines, that there are 2 main reasons why CRDi based cars get fuel pump issues that require the pump's replaced. The first reason, as discussed over here is the inadvertent addition of bad fuel. The second reason--that got me curious-- that he gave me was, not to run these cars on reserve fuel, always have enough fuel such that the fuel meter needle is above reserve. Coupled with the above 2 reasons, the most important factor is that the car should be periodically serviced.
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