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Old 31st January 2011, 21:52   #1
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Question Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

I experienced a near fatal experience today when returning back from a trip.The details are as follows

Car-i20 CRDi (with ABS+EBD) with 4 people and luggage
Tires-Apollo Acellere 185/65-14
Tire pressure-Nitrogen on all wheels at 34 PSI
Where-Between kunigal and Nelamangala(Bangalore area)
When-Between 7.15pm to 8pm
Speed-70 to 80 kmph
Road-four lane road with divider in middle

What happened-As mentioned above i and my family were returning from a trip.I was in the rightmost lane when i see a man crossing the road about 100 mts in front of me from left to right.I apply brakes(slammed it literally).The right two wheels were rolling on gravel and the left two wheels on full tar road.The ABS kicked in and felt the brake pedal pulse.I severed to the left to avoid the man and that moron panicked and ran backward instead of continuing his course.This made me cut to the right again and the car lost control.I felt one of the rear wheels rise from the road(dunno which) .After 2-3 turns of the steering wheel somehow got the car back into control.At one point i was almost 90 degree to the direction of the road and heading into the divider.Had heart stopping moments for 2-3 seconds.Something of this kind happened.Due to gods grace we didnt have any traffic behind us and almighty saved us from a serious mishap.



Wish i had ESC on my car.Again a stepmotherly treatment for the Indian i20 versions!

So i want to know what exactly went wrong in that situation.I did not turn the steering suddenly at all.It was just a small flick.Also initially there was no loss of control.It was during the right turn i did after the initial left all went wrong.Is it the tyres?Or did the wheels lock up in-spite of ABS and caused this?What exactly went wrong?And what should i do to prevent this from happening again?Experts,please share your views.

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 31st January 2011 at 22:27.
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Old 31st January 2011, 22:10   #2
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

a) you mentioned your left tyres and right tyres were on uneven surface. so the grip and the ABS action on them would differ.

b) you may have over steered since the i20s steering is quite light and if i may, unresponsive - this is where at speeds, you may not be sure of where the steering is pointing / heading

nevertheless, glad to know you guys managed to come out of it safe.
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Old 31st January 2011, 22:17   #3
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

If I got the scenario correct, it was similar to what happened to me some years ago. Infact the similarity is uncanny - what was supposedly a slight flick of the steering results in violent uncontrollable swerving, lasting for a few seconds, finally car is perpendicular to median, but finally no damage/injury to car/driver. Only difference was I was in a Baleno and did not have ABS. Plus you tried to avoid a man, I was changing lanes to avoid a car in front.

And what you term as a "small flick" of the steering, at high speeds can result in loss of control - resulting in a series of corrections done by you to correct each swerve.

Are you sure the speed was 70-80kmph ? I would think it was higher for you to lose control and swerve so wildly - atleast in my case it was.

A thread exists for it on tbhp, but I don't want to be reminded of that day.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 31st January 2011 at 22:21.
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Old 31st January 2011, 22:26   #4
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigbarai View Post
a) you mentioned your left tyres and right tyres were on uneven surface. so the grip and the ABS action on them would differ.

b) you may have over steered since the i20s steering is quite light and if i may, unresponsive - this is where at speeds, you may not be sure of where the steering is pointing / heading

nevertheless, glad to know you guys managed to come out of it safe.
1)Yes,but what caused the car to spin out of control like that?The main purpose of ABS to steer away from the obstacle while the braking aspect is taken care of simultaeously right?

2)I turned after slamming the brakes.I know its unresponsive,but it was pretty heavy at the speed.And AFAIK 80-90 is not so high speed on a 4 laned road right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
If I got the scenario correct, it was similar to what happened to me some years ago. And what you term as a "small flick" of the steering, at high speeds can result in loss of control - resulting in a series of corrections done by you to correct each swerve.

Are you sure the speed was 70-80kmph ? I would think it was higher for you to lose control and swerve so wildly - atleast in my case it was.

A thread exists for it on tbhp, but I don't want to be reminded of that day.

I searched for similar thread but didnt get any.Maybe i used wrong keywords.

Yes i was between 70-80 kmph because i had just glanced at the speedo few moments before this happened.Also since i was driving with 60/55W headlamps i had limited visibility so that speed.But i turned the steering after slamming the brakes.With the excellent braking the i20 has i am sure the speed would have dropped to 60 and under rapidly.
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Old 31st January 2011, 22:29   #5
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

supremeBaleno, reading this thread I knew I had read about the Tidel Park incident.

Assuming the speed was as mentioned by the OP, for such a loss of traction, either the tires are a lil worn out, or possibly some oil spill on the road.

There is usually some oil spill or the other on the edges of highways. Thanks to trucks that may have been parked there for sometime.
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Old 31st January 2011, 22:46   #6
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
supremeBaleno, reading this thread I knew I had read about the Tidel Park incident.

Assuming the speed was as mentioned by the OP, for such a loss of traction, either the tires are a lil worn out, or possibly some oil spill on the road.

There is usually some oil spill or the other on the edges of highways. Thanks to trucks that may have been parked there for sometime.

The tyres are relatively new and have clocked 7K kms.

And regarding oil spill.This happened on the right side of the road.Trucks are usually parked on the left right?

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 31st January 2011 at 22:47.
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Old 31st January 2011, 22:52   #7
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The tyres are relatively new and have clocked 7K kms.
Just give them a look. Sometimes alignment issues can cause a wearing out of one tire.

Quote:


And regarding oil spill.This happened on the right side of the road.Trucks are usually parked on the left right?
Sorry, I don't discuss philosophy at night. Just Kidding.

Trucks are parked anywhere the driver takes a fancy. Also oil spills can occur when an accident occurs or something mechanical fails.
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Old 31st January 2011, 23:31   #8
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

When there was no traffic as you do mention, why were you driving on the extreme right on a 'wide' 4-lane road?

The slip might have occurred as others pointed out due to oil spill or some other factors.
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Old 1st February 2011, 10:12   #9
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

Sorry to say this but ... there was nothing wrong that the car did, it did exactly what you asked it to do. By God's grace you and your family are safe, that's what matters. Write it off as a really scary first-time experience.

* Why were you driving on the extreme right? You must have gone extremely on the right (as a reaction to seeing the man for the first time) to encounter gravel! The ABS acted when you braked, you steered to the left, and then you steered to the right once again - landing up facing the median
* With adrenaline pumping, this slalom would have seemed as an extreme situation to you
* Since you have ABS, you need not concentrate on, or lift your foot off, the brake - provided you remember the emergency steering maneuvre. But for that you need to be alert and in control
* To suddenly change direction at that speed one has to turn the steering half turn at max, nothing more. If you start skidding (having ABS does not mean it will take care of steering too, YOU have to steer), turn IN THE DIRECTION of the skid by rotating the steering with the base of the palm 1.5 turns (till lock). The car would have slowed down meanwhile, so release brake, accelerate slightly and steer in the safe direction

Last edited by DerAlte : 1st February 2011 at 10:13.
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Old 1st February 2011, 10:16   #10
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The right two wheels were rolling on gravel and the left two wheels on full tar road.The ABS kicked in and felt the brake pedal pulse.I severed to the left to avoid the man and that moron panicked and ran backward instead of continuing his course.This made me cut to the right again and the car lost control.I felt one of the rear wheels rise from the road(dunno which) .After 2-3 turns of the steering wheel somehow got the car back into control.At one point i was almost 90 degree to the direction of the road and heading into the divider.
Glad you're safe.

I think the fact that the friction with the roads was different for the front 2 tyres reduced the effectiveness of ABS.

Also, at 80-90 km/hr, a small flick of the steering will result in quite a swerve. So, this combined with the diff. way the front 2 wheels braked made the braking process difficult.

I doubt you can avoid such incidents; because the fault lies not with you but with the idiots who stray on to the road.

One thing that I try to follow while driving on highways at night; never to stick to the extreme right or left lane. I try to leave enough gap on either sides; the occurance of vehicles taking a U-turn and stranded on the right-most lane is way too common.
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Old 1st February 2011, 10:19   #11
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

Just curious, did you have to panic brake if you were 100 meters away at 70kmph? That would give you almost 5 seconds to reach him if you don't brake at all.
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Old 1st February 2011, 10:21   #12
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

It is not a good idea to "flick" the steering wheel at all. Not even slightly. Inputs should be as smooth as possible.
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Old 1st February 2011, 11:10   #13
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
When there was no traffic as you do mention, why were you driving on the extreme right on a 'wide' 4-lane road?

The slip might have occurred as others pointed out due to oil spill or some other factors.
4 laned in the sense-2 lanes in either direction.By extreme right lane i mean the right lane of the two lane road.And there was a good 5 feet gap between car and divider

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Sorry to say this but ... there was nothing wrong that the car did, it did exactly what you asked it to do. By God's grace you and your family are safe, that's what matters. Write it off as a really scary first-time experience.

* Why were you driving on the extreme right? You must have gone extremely on the right (as a reaction to seeing the man for the first time) to encounter gravel! The ABS acted when you braked, you steered to the left, and then you steered to the right once again - landing up facing the median
* With adrenaline pumping, this slalom would have seemed as an extreme situation to you
* Since you have ABS, you need not concentrate on, or lift your foot off, the brake - provided you remember the emergency steering maneuvre. But for that you need to be alert and in control
* To suddenly change direction at that speed one has to turn the steering half turn at max, nothing more. If you start skidding (having ABS does not mean it will take care of steering too, YOU have to steer), turn IN THE DIRECTION of the skid by rotating the steering with the base of the palm 1.5 turns (till lock). The car would have slowed down meanwhile, so release brake, accelerate slightly and steer in the safe direction
No sir,as i mentioned previously in this post i was 5 feet from the divider.When i saw the man i was on perfect tar road.But when i started to brake i came under a gravel stretch of road on which my cars right wheels started to roll.So when i braked the ABS kicked in and i felt the car may not stop in time .The person was almost in my lane so i turned to left.And the moron turned back again,this is where i problem started.I may have turned the wheel to right bit aggressively but i think the speed would have been below 50 kmph by then and i had not other option because that person was very near to me and could have hit him.

And would better tyres made any difference to the situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Just curious, did you have to panic brake if you were 100 meters away at 70kmph? That would give you almost 5 seconds to reach him if you don't brake at all.
Sir,this person was standing by the road.I noticed him.But suddenly he started to cross it.I had just a second or two to prevent hitting him when the second part of the incident happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
It is not a good idea to "flick" the steering wheel at all. Not even slightly. Inputs should be as smooth as possible.

True.I too know it.But when faced with a impending accident i may have been stupid too.But is speed under 50 kmph enough to cause that kind of total loss of control?
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Old 1st February 2011, 11:19   #14
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
True.I too know it.But when faced with a impending accident i may have been stupid too.But is speed under 50 kmph enough to cause that kind of total loss of control?
It can happen, depending on road surface and tyre grip, though it is more common at high speeds. Perhaps there was loose gravel under your wheels.
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Old 1st February 2011, 11:55   #15
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Default re: Emergency manouveur in my i20 diesel. Need to understand what happened

Like others have mentioned, flicking the steering wheel is never a good idea, unless you are trying a drift.
ABS will not counter the laws of physics. Sudden switch from one direction to another will result in loss of control.
Better, fatter tyres may have reduced the chances of it happening though.
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