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Old 25th January 2006, 12:41   #91
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Hey,

Simplest solution ask them to temporarily swap the MAF sensor from any car in the workshop and go for a spin. If the car works fineyou have the culprit. I personally doubt the clutch would be the problem as I assume the pickup was OK prior to this fuel incident.

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Old 25th January 2006, 12:52   #92
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Chances are those monkeys dropped oil/grease on the clutch when they removed the engine. It just not possible to burn out a clutch on a new car so fast.

I really feel for you karthik! But have you sent of those letters to Skoda HQ? They obviously need to rethink their choice of dealers in TVM.
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Old 25th January 2006, 14:02   #93
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Default hey karthik

it's just possible that u r having the problem due to burnt clutch!! eventhough your car is new ur chances r that ur clutch got burnt when u had troublw with your engine n u couldnt rev above 3000 rpm...u mentione dthat to move the vehicle in 1st gear u revved upto 2000rpm....this might be the cause for your clutch gettin burnt....hey but do c the clutch plate whether it is burnt or not..
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Old 25th January 2006, 14:09   #94
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There is a small cap or sumtin for the clutch rite..they opened that, smelt it and said..'yeap the clutch is burnt'

Till date, the car has done almost 28,000 kms with abt 95% city driving. But still, there wasn't even a slight prob with the car till all this started. Now like i said when this prob started, it was very difficult to drive the car and had to rev hard to get it moving in 1st gear. So they said that when i drove the car to their workshop the first time, i must have over ridden the clutch and so its burnt...but not completely. The car can be driven now, i'm not sayin its not possible..but the old new car feel has just vanished.
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Old 25th January 2006, 14:42   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik247
There is a small cap or sumtin for the clutch rite..they opened that, smelt it and said..'yeap the clutch is burnt'.
WOW! Advanced diagnostics!
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Old 25th January 2006, 22:35   #96
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karthik have u renewed the clutch plate? i think that the problem is with the plate!! and did u get the fuel sample tested? what was the result? did the dealer say anything regarding your injectors getting clogged or something?
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Old 25th January 2006, 22:35   #97
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Pal, you are heading for trouble. Those monkeys out there definetely don't know their job. There have kept the car for so many days and dismantled the whole engine and still can't figure out what's wrong!? Really surprising.

Let us go over the whole thing again.

1 - If the damage is due to fuel, then there would be many other cars having the similar damage (unless Skoda runs on super refined fuels). Also the damage does not take place all of a sudden (except you have changed over to coal).

2. Your car's ECU won't get damage just like that with you driving style (unless the entire MVA is programmed into your ECU)

3. The turbo can get damaged when EITHER the exhaust gas temperature has gone above 650 deg C for a long time or around 1000 deg C in a short pulse OR there is a huge surge OR something broken has gone inside OR there is failure in lubrication or bearings etc. Under such condition it will not work, but if the blower or nozzle or turbine is damaged slightly, you will have loss of power.

4. The clutch can only get damaged, IF you have been driving on half clutch most of the time or the engine torque/power has exceeded the desing limit of the engine power which can happen if you are trying to do formula racing with your car or you had been driving around with a dozen of really overweight guys. (and if Skoda is having wet type clutch, then oil on it won't damage it just like that) AND if the performance was less right after you have got your car back, then the clutch adjustment was wrong (it wasn't engaging properly and hence got burnt due to slippage)

It is still very difficult to diagonise the fault, but those guys were trying to make money, which was stopped due to some reason (could be team-bhp forum discussions). And they are frustrated guys now.

We can do now as follows:

1. Send a protest note to Makers detailing everything.

2. Make posters and stick on the cars in that locality about the Skoda or that dealer. (If they have monopoly, then you may not get many supporters)

3. Start advertising by word and mouth about Skoda and its dealer attitude.

4. Collect all the data and go to consumer court.

Another advice. As those guys are frustrated, they will try to destroy all types of evidence. So try to get as many documents as possible and keep it with you. Keep a record of all the phone calls you have made to them that is date and time. Keep all the papers or emails which you have sent to them or have got from them. But before starting all this give them a last chance and tell them that you are pushed to a corner (be polite and firm - don't budge from your stance - that you don't know a damn about car tech funda, but know that your car is not behaving as you got it new and it is worse after you brought it to them). If they don't get your car back to normal in another one or two days (make sure they give all the damage parts back to you with the numbers etc which have been fitted) and take them to consumer court. Once you start pushing, they will running to your home and not you running to their workshop.
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Old 25th January 2006, 22:43   #98
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Like i posted in the other thread, does the K&N filter cause damage to the MAF?? I have one and has been in use for arnd 4-5k kms

ON their scanner, it showed 2 probs. One of the MAF and the other of ABS(??). So they erased the prob with the scanner and then checked the car, and told me it could be the clutch.

And are there anyways 'I' can find out atleast whats wrong..like is it the turbo, clutch, MAF or anything else??
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Old 25th January 2006, 23:18   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik247
Like i posted in the other thread, does the K&N filter cause damage to the MAF?? I have one and has been in use for arnd 4-5k kms
I don't think so. Let us see what others say about this from their experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik247
ON their scanner, it showed 2 probs. One of the MAF and the other of ABS(??). So they erased the prob with the scanner and then checked the car, and told me it could be the clutch.
Your ECU is giving wrong reading to scanner or their scanner is having problems. If we consider this as a freak case, then check that their scanner is giving consistent readings.



Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik247
And are there anyways 'I' can find out atleast whats wrong..like is it the turbo, clutch, MAF or anything else??
It is a very difficult job. You have to analyse a lot of data, but for turbo you can generalise by noting the rpm where it kicks in and sound of it when you are revving the engine and comparing with another car or if you have noticed earlier on your own car. But it is general guideline and by no means a conclusive test.

Similarly the smell may indicate a burnt oil (which is quite common - check the crankcase oil smell on the dipstick from any other car which has run for 5~10KM to get the hang of it) rather than burnt clutch plate. If your engine is responding well in idle (again compare with another car) but in gear, it feel slugish, then the clutch adjustment may be not right or clutch plate worn out or burnt. But again it is generalising the problem rather than accurately pinpointing it.

Sensors can be easily checked. It those guys have instrument to check it, they can check it in front of you. Or best way, then can put a know working sensor and comparing the result. If it solve the problem, then you got it in front of you else, the problem is somewhere else.
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Old 26th January 2006, 00:02   #100
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Karthik, can you feel/notice the clutch slipping while accelerating? And are the gear changes (up and down) smooth as they were before? and is the Skoda dealer adamant that it was the fuel that started this sequence of problems? I fail to understand how bad fuel can lead to a half-burnt clutch?

Jat, how can having more weight in a car lead to more wear and tear on the clutch? The engine is still providing as much torque as it does anyway and the stock clutch can well handle it.
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Old 26th January 2006, 00:50   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeps
Karthik, can you feel/notice the clutch slipping while accelerating? And are the gear changes (up and down) smooth as they were before? and is the Skoda dealer adamant that it was the fuel that started this sequence of problems? I fail to understand how bad fuel can lead to a half-burnt clutch?

Jat, how can having more weight in a car lead to more wear and tear on the clutch? The engine is still providing as much torque as it does anyway and the stock clutch can well handle it.
If ECU fails and the engine is trying to produce more power than the clutch can handle (when you floor the pedal), the clutch will start slipping. You can feel it while driving. (I faced it once on a bike long time back). The clutch will overheat and hence wear and tear or burn out.

Last edited by jat : 26th January 2006 at 00:53.
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Old 26th January 2006, 12:07   #102
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Well here is a good jerk while shiftin the gear and releasing the clutch.
But the car moves in half-clutch without much of a problem. But driving in 2nd at very slow speeds is not possible as it used to be before
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Old 26th January 2006, 21:19   #103
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[SIZE=2]Karthik, I can really tell you a few things about SKoda dealer in TVM. The service centre you are talking about is Marikar Motors at Pattom right ? The only reason I went for a Chevy (Petrol), is because of the attitude of SKODA people here and the lack of technical knowledge which I witnessed myself. Before buying my Chevy in August 2004, I went to this place and they showed me a printed price list. It was something like 11++. I asked them a few technical questions and they had no clue what they were talking about. Finally, I asked them how much discount can you offer me and they said not a single paise and said that it is the policy of their company. (It was like, if you want it you take it, or get lost attitude) These people were ripping people earlier when we had only Ambassadors here. Everybody went for this at that time since nobody had any other options. I had even seen the latest one for 5+ (which I feel personally is a pile of junk metal) and there are fools still buying them where if you put a few extra bucks you could get a Baleno. Defintely, they are responsible for sorting this out, since it is under warranty. I know one thing for sure. All the fuel offered by IOC, HP, BP etc are mixed with vegetable oil or kersone. In India, you are getting only a purity of around 60% in fuels and people do not realize this. They are taking the public for a ride. I realized this when the first time I filled Petrol from Reliance and Essar. I used to get 12-13 kmpl with the fuel earlier on highways. When I filled Reliance, I got a clean 18 kmpl during one of my trips coming back from Munnar. I tried Essar fuels and then I got 16-17 on highway. Nowadays, no matter what happens, I fill only these brands. Otherwise, I make sure I use an additive. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]And something from my experince similiar to this. Two months back after the 1st service, I suddenly noticed one day that the rpm kept increasing by itself. I immediately called Geeyam motors, Cochin and they sent the technician with the Monitoring device and a spare CPU which controls the sensors. They told me that everything would be covered under warranty. They found out that it was only an electric surge which was giving wrong information to the chip. BTW, at that time they found the horns could not be tuned and they just replaced it as warranty replacement and I did not pay a single rupee. (To tell the truth, I know what caused the electric surge since a few days back before the trouble started, my Maruti800 got a low battery and I had used jumper cables to get power from the Optra and defintely the chip picked up the extra few volts from the 800 . I did not tell them about this since I remembered this only when they gave the car back)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Definitely, these people should pay for what ever happens so long as your vehicle is under warranty. Sent some e-mails with copies to heads of SKODA all over India and if required to all continents so that they will feel the pressure and change their attitude.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
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Old 27th January 2006, 00:45   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik247
Well here is a good jerk while shiftin the gear and releasing the clutch.
But the car moves in half-clutch without much of a problem. But driving in 2nd at very slow speeds is not possible as it used to be before
It does seem like a clutch problem.

Now when you are driving in 2nd gear, do you feel the acceleration is less when you are revving or the engine stalls when you are driving in slow speed. If the acceleration is less when you are revving then definetely it is clutch problem, but if the engine stalls, then it is engine or ECU.

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Old 27th January 2006, 00:57   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jat
If ECU fails and the engine is trying to produce more power than the clutch can handle (when you floor the pedal), the clutch will start slipping. You can feel it while driving. (I faced it once on a bike long time back). The clutch will overheat and hence wear and tear or burn out.
We know that the manufacturers de-tune their engines for India. But i doubt they also change the components in the drive-train because of higher costs involved. Thus, the clutch and other components should be able to cope with more torque than the indian engine is able to deliver...under normal conditions. One instance is for example the hgiher torque figures that Pete's powerbox leads to. The stock clutch assembly can tolerate it, right. So then the stock clutch should also be able deal with any excess torque that may result from a malfunctioning ECU.


Hope you understood what i am trying to say
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