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Old 23rd February 2011, 20:11   #1
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Default Clutch change done - How to check?

(Mods! Starting a new thread as I could not find any info on how to find if the clutch is changed)

Hi,

For the last 15K Kms I had felt a progressive wear in clutch in my Verna of which the symptoms were
1. Engine RPM slipping (increase in RPM with no increase in vehicle speed). Was initially felt in higher engine speeds and later on became unbearable for stop-start city driving
2. Juddering when I release the clutch in the first gear (in the last 5 K Kms)
3. Difficulty in climbing gradients. This I found when I went on a trip to Ooty in Nov. Could feel a clutch burn smell sometime when I had to stop and climb again.
4. No feel of turbo kicking although I feel that turbo is working perfectly. ( no Symptoms of failure noticed like Smoking, not even during sudden bursts in acceleration)
5. Slotting in 3rd gear with handbrake on did not stall the engine. Tried this once on purpose. Had twice released the clutch with handbrake on and in first gear (by accident) and even then the car did not stall.
6. Had difficulty slotting 2nd gear sometimes. And first (from higher gears) when I wanted to crawl in traffic without engaging clutch
7. No perceptible change in pedal pressure. Or maybe since I was used to driving a SEAT Ibiza (VW/SEAT in Europe are known for their heavy clutch)

I am not going to debate on how the clutch wore out so soon. Last Month I had wanted the clutch change done as symptoms 1,2 and 3 were making it difficult for me to drive in Chennai traffic. So had PM from Phoenix and Pras.Oct whom I contacted for a reliable Hyundai Service and was recommended KUN, Kottivakkam. I used to give my cars for my previous 2 services with V3 Hyundai. They are new but do not trust them except for general service like changing filter and oil change, which I do religiously every 6-8K Kms.
Now I had asked SA to call me when they were changing the clutch (the whole assembly minus the flywheel). The SA promised but did not call me. Instead he showed me the old clutch after replacement. I insisted on a test drive before delivery and found that issues 2, 4, 6 remain even after change. Further I can feel a change in engine note when I press and release the clutch in neutral. So here are my questions
1. I was told that it would take sometime (how much?) the clutch to be bed in properly. Is this acceptable?
2. How do we know that clutch was replaced? or just the clutch bearings only changed?
3. Since 2, 4, 6 still remain with no major improvement in pickup (not like the earlier 40K days ). Is there something else wrong with my car? The SA did hook in OBD connector during neutral and sudden acceleration inputs to notice any issues with Turbo or sensors and felt (!) everything is normal. How do I check?

Would request guru's out there to advise.

Last edited by DWind : 23rd February 2011 at 20:16.
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Old 24th February 2011, 17:49   #2
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

I am also eagerly waiting for response from Gurus on this.

Regarding point 2 (Juddering when I release the clutch in the first gear (in the last 5 K Kms)), I experienced the same in my car, and the service rep also mentioned that clutch needs to be overhauled.

I did a lot of reading on the net and found out after carrying a few tests that the clutch did not need to be overhauled.

The juddering was happening because I was not releasing the clutch enough (as a habit, I always release the clutch to a certain point). With time; either because the clutch wore or because of the play in the cable (I am not sure), the clutch does not engage as much as it earlier would at that point. So, to engage the clutch to that point, I have to release the clutch slightly more than what I usually release.

Note 1: This is my opinion, I might be technically wrong - corrections welcome.
Note 2: The juddering problem is magnified while climbing gradients.
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Old 24th February 2011, 18:11   #3
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Clean the Air filter or replace them. I changed to Green filter and i can see a huge difference in point 4.

For no 6 - Are you slowing down enought to engage the lower gears. And are you engaging the clutch completely?


Almost feels like a worn out syncromesh. But i could be wrong
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Old 24th February 2011, 19:18   #4
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Thanks for responding!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Clean the Air filter or replace them. I changed to Green filter and i can see a huge difference in point 4.
I had done a 60 K Service also along with the change. I could see that filter was changed. The turbo kick was noticeable before (till 40-45K kms)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
For no 6 - Are you slowing down enough to engage the lower gears. And are you engaging the clutch completely?
Almost feels like a worn out syncromesh. But i could be wrong
I do know I have slowed down enough. On my Verna on second gear without throttle I am at speeds close to 20kmph. Anything less, I need to slip clutch. As a rule I slot to first if the speeds are going to around 10 kmph and enjoy the torque pull which I now have problems after change of clutch. And yes I make it a point to depress clutch fully. The Synchromesh might have gone wornout due to worn-out clutch. But then the other gears are slotting properly.

Last edited by DWind : 24th February 2011 at 19:19.
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Old 24th February 2011, 20:17   #5
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWind View Post
1.I was told that it would take sometime (how much?) the clutch to be bed in properly. Is this acceptable?
2. How do we know that clutch was replaced? or just the clutch bearings only changed?
1. Not acceptable. When I got the clutch of my Alto Lxi (800 cc) changed, the difference was immediately noticed.
2. The best way to know is to stay with your car during clutch replacement. I had absolutely zero knowledge about the working of clutches, but gathered enough info from the internet before going for clutch replacement. This knowledge 'forced' the workshop guy to accept my argument that the clutch plate was fine, only the diaphragm spring was damaged (A genuine case for warranty replacement). I didn't get warranty replacement anyway, but that's another story.

I was also asked by the workshop guy to leave the car in the workshop and come back later after the clutch is replaced. Finally he yielded because I said "This is not my car. Either you replace the clutch now in my presence or Iam taking it to another workshop."

Last edited by jinojohnt : 24th February 2011 at 20:22.
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Old 24th February 2011, 21:00   #6
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Quote:
1. Not acceptable. When I got the clutch of my Alto Lxi (800 cc) changed, the difference was immediately noticed.
I second that. When i changed my clutch plates in my Bullet, the mechanic almost did a wheelie. The difference is very noticable.


Quote:
The Synchromesh might have gone wornout due to worn-out clutch. But then the other gears are slotting properly
I guess you will notice the gear slotting problem while you are down shifting from higher gears. If this is the case i still fear the problem to be Syncromesh. But experts can help better.Dont take my word, i am just guessing.
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Old 24th February 2011, 21:25   #7
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

I recently changed the clutch in my wagaon-r which has done 55000 Kms. I was also experiencing juddering and the car wasn't pulling properly. Consulted a few workshops and all suggested that it is due to worn out fly wheel. Finally replaced clutch plate/pressure plate/bearing and the flywheel and the juddering is gone.

So probably the reason the juddering is still there in your car is because you didn't change the flywheel.

Last edited by akhilesh : 24th February 2011 at 21:44.
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Old 24th February 2011, 21:27   #8
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

@Dwind: If the engine note is changing after pressing the clutch, then you should check the clutch release bearing.

The clutch has a glazed face and its will take about 100 odd Kms for that glaze to wear off and the rough surface to come into play.

But with a new clutch in place the gear shifts should be butter smooth. If this is not the case then may be you should get it checked again.

Cheers
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Old 24th February 2011, 21:38   #9
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

If I am not mistaken, the Verna has a hydraulic clutch. If so, please have it checked by somebody competent since the adjustments can make a critical difference to the operation of the clutch (assuming your service center DID replace the clutch plate)
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Old 27th February 2011, 16:05   #10
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Guys,

I had faced all of the above mentioned issues with my car, Swift Petrol.

1) It wouldnt pull enough, engaging the 1st or Reverse gear was a pain.
2) Pickup was pathetic with the old clutch.
3) Burning smell from the clutch was a common phenomenon when driving at speeds such as 100+, I especially used to get the burning smell while parking the car in my appt. It is a little high from the ground and hence had to ride the clutch to get the car up the ramp.
4) Juddering was normal.

How to Identify clutch issues:-
The above mentioned points hold true of a clutch issue.
The most important part I felt was, the clutch pedal was super hard to press, (this happens because the asbestos in the clutch burns out, and the residue actually accumulates within the clutch assembly area), as the clutch in my car is cable driven, the assembly to move the clutch pressure plate, had a lot of this asbestos stuck in it, and hence was not helping in the free clutch lever movement inside the clutch assembly, this had to be cleaned for almost an hour with petrol and had to be lubricated a lot. (attached are the pics) After the cleaning and replacement of the clutch assembly (flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, flywheel bearing), Always ensure that you replace the bearings and the related parts, in order to get best results, do not think of saving a few bucks, which could ruin the new clutch set.

The best way to ensure that you have the clutch assembled properly and to know that the clutch has genuinely been replaced is to get it done in person, rather than leaving the car at the A.S.S's mercy.

Hope this helps.
Attached Thumbnails
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Clutch change done - How to check?-img_0321.jpg  

Clutch change done - How to check?-img_0322.jpg  

Clutch change done - How to check?-img_0323.jpg  

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Old 1st March 2011, 14:35   #11
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Try using the Exedy Stage 1 clutch in a Swift Petrol. I use one myself, the results are astounding.
The original clutch is prone to early wear & tear.
Though I managed to coax 70 k out of my stock clutch (driving in traffic-crazy Bangalore), the average life of the original clutch is known to be around 40 k.
I am extremely happy with my Exedy clutch, total cost around 15 K including fitment.
For slow-speed statistics, the car pulls from as low as 600 rpm in 5th gear without a whimper or shudder.
Top speed I have achieved is 158 kmph (with 185/70 R14 tyres).
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Old 1st March 2011, 22:53   #12
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWind View Post
(Mods! Starting a new thread as I could not find any info on how to find if the clutch is changed)

1. I was told that it would take sometime (how much?) the clutch to be bed in properly. Is this acceptable? Not acceptable . The clutch housing holds the clutch and there are high tension springs . So a new clutch will not slip . Did they change the Clutch cover pressure plate assembly ?
2. How do we know that clutch was replaced? or just the clutch bearings only changed?
Try taking off in the first gear without any accelerator input . The car should try to move without any judder .
3. Since 2, 4, 6 still remain with no major improvement in pickup (not like the earlier 40K days ). Is there something else wrong with my car? The SA did hook in OBD connector during neutral and sudden acceleration inputs to notice any issues with Turbo or sensors and felt (!) everything is normal. How do I check?

What has an OBD got to do with a clutch ?


Would request guru's out there to advise.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 2nd March 2011 at 11:34.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 10:21   #13
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

@greatmana2000
1. As I said before, the clutch does not slip but the juddering is there and not always. It comes occasionally and sometimes does not. Yes the clutch release bearings + clutch plate + housing was changed (minus the free-wheel)
2. The car does move without acceleration in first gear (sometimes with judder and sometimes not)
3. The OBD was connected to check if the issue with pickup was due to turbo-charger which it was not.
@Milecruncher
As I said the release bearings were also changed.

All said and done, I am unhappy with the clutch change. Will take it to them once again and let you know.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:31   #14
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

Let me know when you take it to Nirmal. Also, can you scan and post the bill for this replacement, just to track what is replaced and what is not?
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:36   #15
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Default Re: Clutch change done - How to check?

I changed the clutch plate in my Premier Padmini. The clutch usually would get released at the last point of release of clutch pedal.

Now after depressing the clutch pedal, the first few inches the car starts moving. I have noticed judder in the first or second gear.

Should I get that rechecked at the place and what are the points I should look after? pl enlighten me.
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