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Old 21st March 2011, 11:08   #136
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Hope it continues to not misbehave. Do you use the highway often. There is this COCO BP pump after thonakkal. I try to fill from there when ever i get an opportunity. Infact I had my last two fills from there (just before and after 20K service) and the engine was as smooth as butter. I;m not sure if its because of the 20K service. But it was so smooth that i called up the SE and asked if they had changed anything in my car!!!

This time i went back to the Reliance pump and its things are almost back to normal.
We don't frequent the highway that much. Also we have moved to using MC road rather than NH47 for the few trips that we make to parents' native place. Otherwise my Figo does mostly city runs and almost 95% of the fuel that has gone in to it has been filled from the BP pump in Kawdiar. Even for highway trips we fill-up from this pump and avoid using any other pumps which we are not sure of. But yeah COCO pumps should be any day better. Have mentally noted down the pump you just mentioned. There is a civil supplies IOC pump in Vellayambalam, but they don't sell diesel there.
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Old 21st March 2011, 18:46   #137
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Well if its VFM+ some more VFM i think you should be looking at the Vista. TATA is better known for the VFM thingy!
Will definitely re-consider Vista QJD before making the final decision.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 12:15   #138
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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When I reached about 3-4 meters close to the other car, I pressed the clutch fully to downshift and I heard a chime from the dashboard. I immediately looked at the instrument cluster and one of the yellow bulbs were lit (Didn't clearly note which one). I knew the engine was going to die since that's when the chime is heard. I took my foot off the clutch at that point and avoided the stalling. The car moved on fine after that.
It happens EXACTLY the same way to me too.

If I am able to release the clutch before third chime (three chimes are heard if engine stalls) then I am generally able to avoid stalling of the engine.

Analyzing the situation, this means that the ECU IS sensing that the engine is going to die and is setting on the chimes. Which means when we are depressing the clutch there is excess Engine Loading because of unavailability of either fuel or air and the engine is suffocating and ECU sending a signal.

But as soon as we are releasing the clutch, something that is unavailable when the clutch is depressed is made available (i.e fuel or air) and Engine is back to life again.


So the question I have here is does Figo has the "bump" or "clutch" start enabled? I thought It was not possible to start the engine by disengaging the clutch while coasting. If that is possible, I think we can nail out it as either Clutch sensor or the BOV.

I am ruling out EGR valve, the symptoms do not match mine at least.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 13:05   #139
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

@Anil
As you might have read, the A.S.S. guys have replaced the Vehicle Speed Sensor in my car (saying it showed some related error codes in the ECU scan report) and I've traveled close to 130 odd kms after that without the issue popping up.
Will be doing a 700km+ trip tomorrow. Will report back in case of any new findings.

Bottom line is that fuel is not playing spoilsport here unless Ford is using some very low-tolerance parts in the fuel injection system, which I don't think Ford is.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 13:18   #140
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
@Anil
As you might have read, the A.S.S. guys have replaced the Vehicle Speed Sensor in my car (saying it showed some related error codes in the ECU scan report) and I've traveled close to 130 odd kms after that without the issue popping up.
Will be doing a 700km+ trip tomorrow. Will report back in case of any new findings.

Bottom line is that fuel is not playing spoilsport here unless Ford is using some very low-tolerance parts in the fuel injection system, which I don't think Ford is.
I did read your updates. I am wondering if I should go ahead with the clutch sensor replacement or wait for your updates. There is clearly an issue with insufficient fuel+air mixture when disengaing the clutch. And when we are releasing the clutch the fuel supply is being restored. So I will naturally suspect all the sensors related to clutch than anything else.


I am aware that VSS works in conjunction with CPP sensor, but I am not too sure if the sensor has clutch position as a trigger. Nevertheless, mind letting me know which batch is yours? mine is AU- June 2010 batch.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 13:30   #141
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Yes, I too had doubts regarding the Clutch sensor. Also the speedo didn't show any erratic behavior which is a sign of a faulty V.S.S. Anyways so far so good.

My car is a July 2010 manufactured one.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 13:54   #142
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

I think, Ideal Speed Regulator in conjuction with throttle valve opening at that particular instance when youre car engine is about to die down could be the problem. Of what little i know, i would encircle the throttle body as the problem area and someone needs to investigate in this portion to pin-point the very cause of this stalling of engine.

Besides,I have a petrol sedan, in which this 'engine about to die down when pressed clutch ' instance happens. But, in my car it happens at cold start only, once the engine warms up its normal. The clutch pedal depressed fully, and your engine stalls, same thing happens in my car at cold start. Usually, when you press the clutch pedal its obvious the the rpm needle should fall, but then its should not fall to an extent that the engine dies down-- that seems to be happening to some here. It should stay above or on the idle point even when clutch pressed, but since its falls below that, that is why the engine stalls!. Now, in my car , I know for sure that this will happen every morning when i drive the car out for its first few kilometers. So, its always at the back of mind, that when i am about to fully depress the clutch pedal, just before that, i gradually press the throttle too, and with my eye at the rpm meter making sure that the needle stays a bit above its idle point. Measures taken in an attempt to forestall this problem, thats what i do, or to take measures so as no to allow this problem to happen. Furthermore, there is only one instance at warmed up engine, that something odd happens:- The car engine running, at a red light stop, the moment i press the AC on switch. Rather than the rpm needle rising up slightly, just for second its fall down, then suddely rises up above its idle point. Since, the engine doesn't stall , i can live with this slight problem.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 14:07   #143
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Analyzing the situation, this means that the ECU IS sensing that the engine is going to die and is setting on the chimes.
In that case, there should be a proper error code registered right?
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Old 22nd March 2011, 14:12   #144
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by figo_united View Post
In that case, there should be a proper error code registered right?
I reckon ECU would not send an error code every time you stall the engine. For ECU it is just another stalling situation where the engine cannot over come the load with the resources provided to it.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 18:44   #145
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Can this be simulated at idle i.e reviving the engine and pressing the clutch at various rpm's to rule out the load factor
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:15   #146
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by RGK View Post
Can this be simulated at idle i.e reviving the engine and pressing the clutch at various rpm's to rule out the load factor
I don't think we can load the engine at idle or without engaging the drive train. Loading it without actually engaging the drive train requires special equipment where we can apply different loads to the engine shaft, aka our experiment to determine the BHP in B Tech Labs!
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Old 24th March 2011, 21:00   #147
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I don't think we can load the engine at idle or without engaging the drive train. Loading it without actually engaging the drive train requires special equipment where we can apply different loads to the engine shaft, aka our experiment to determine the BHP in B Tech Labs!
No I think you have misunderstood. Should not give any load and test by doing during gear is in neutral.
Since the stalling happens when driving in the road, need to check whether this happens when there is almost Zero load.
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Old 25th March 2011, 00:47   #148
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

So the V.S.S. replacement done on Sunday doesn't seem to have fully cured the ailment. The car again switched off on depressing the clutch (attempted a downshift from 4th to 3rd) within 2 kms of our long drive to Bangalore. Didn't want to panic my parents, so avoided telling them the issue just reoccured. Anyways other than that one time, the remaining 750 odd kilometers were done pretty neatly. No issues.

Took the car to Lathangi Ford in Bangalore today to get a check-up. ECU scan done to detect any error codes, none found. Test drove on the Hosur highway for a good 10-15 kms, but could not reproduce it, hence they were helpless. Just opted for the free service camp and got my car washed and stuff, also got the brake pads replaced under warranty since they were making a horrid grinding noise while braking.

So the issue is still present, lying latent now. Will follow up the case with the Ford Dealership in my town if it reoccurs again.
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Old 25th March 2011, 11:34   #149
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
So the issue is still present, lying latent now. Will follow up the case with the Ford Dealership in my town if it reoccurs again.
Why not check if CPP too is an issue. To be very frank I started to incline more with Gemi's thought looks like a very complex issue; because if sensors go bad ECU should capture the same.

By the way, I am having a big drop in mileage after summer's onset. The mileage is now down to 15 kmpl with full a/c in city. Drove up and down to Mumbai at 3 digit speeds, looks like I am getting the same mileage with full a/c. Worried now! Or should I be?

I am going for CPP replacement nevertheless and now keeping an ear on chimes to avoid stalling by engaging the clutch before I stall. And squeaks are back again, not as bad as they used to be, but they are back!! Life eeeeeeez haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!!

Last edited by anilisanil : 25th March 2011 at 11:35.
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Old 25th March 2011, 13:30   #150
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Why not check if CPP too is an issue. To be very frank I started to incline more with Gemi's thought looks like a very complex issue; because if sensors go bad ECU should capture the same.

By the way, I am having a big drop in mileage after summer's onset. The mileage is now down to 15 kmpl with full a/c in city. Drove up and down to Mumbai at 3 digit speeds, looks like I am getting the same mileage with full a/c. Worried now! Or should I be?

I am going for CPP replacement nevertheless and now keeping an ear on chimes to avoid stalling by engaging the clutch before I stall. And squeaks are back again, not as bad as they used to be, but they are back!! Life eeeeeeez haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!!
I have decided to follow it up with the dealership in my town after it reoccurs again since I'll be in Bangalore only for a couple of days and the guys here are already hard pressed for time due to the free service camp that's going on now.

I've always been getting around 16 kmpl with 70% ac and sparse traffic. On the highway drive to Bangalore, I got around 17-18 kmpl. The speeds were close to 120 kmph most of the time. I guess with a 90-100 kmph run, you should be getting close to 19-20/liter
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